You can likely eliminate the Los Angeles Clippers as a potential suitor for Zach Randolph. And you can begin to second-guess Donnie Walsh's decision to pass on the Clippers' offer of a second-round pick for Zach Randolph.
Word spread quickly here about a trade between the Clips and the Nuggets that sent Marcus Camby to LA for a future second-round pick. It was a salary dump by the Nugs, which was something Walsh had first crack at last week.
The Nuggets have no reason to apologize. They created a ton of much-needed cap relief. The Clippers needed to do something to make up for the loss of Elton Brand. They wanted Z-Bo and his 20-10 numbers. They settled for one of the league's best shot-blockers who is far more cheaper on the payroll with two years and $15.6 mil left compared to Zach's three years and $48 mil.
The Clips are going to have a big front line, when you pair Camby with Chris Kaman. But none of you care much about that right now. What you'd rather hear is that the Clips now package Camby and Tim Thomas ($6 mil) in exchange for Zach. That deal works for the Knicks because both contracts expire by 2010.
But don't bet on it. Sounds like the Clips got the Cambyman to keep him.
“Marcus can play multiple positions and is one of the better rebounders and shot-blockers in the league," Elgin Baylor said. "With him playing alongside [Chris] Kaman I think we will have a pair of excellent interior defenders, and that will make us a formidable team.”
Walsh clearly believes he can get more in return for Randolph. Plenty of summer left to find out if he does.
Comments (42)
Poker guy... Mr Walsh?
it was a dangerous game... and i hope for him... he will find an alternative to this attractive salary dump trade.
If not..
I'd love to have Camby back; he'd give the Knicks what they haven't had since he left.
Allan,
The next time you have an interview with a player ask them how come none of their teamates ever mention Zachs name when they talk about the team next year.
Yesterday I listened to Q, Jamal and Marbury and they all mentioned Curry, Lee, basically the whole team with the exception of Zach.
Do player on the team not like him?
Allan,
You have become a very reliable source of great information. As soon as I saw this deal reported on ESPN I ran to my computer to see if you had already blogged about it.
A couple of my friends mentioned the same Camby for Z-Bo trade scenario, but with our luck that won't happen.
However, there still is hope because Donnie and the Nuggets GM are close....so maybe this was a planned move that will allow the Knicks to get the shotblocker they need in return for Z-Bo.
I guess time will tell. Regardless, thanks again for the daily scoop and keep up the good work!
I'm still thinking more could be had in a deal for Zach than just a 2nd rounder. Just because the Nugs made the move doesn't mean the Knicks should have. There is still the rest of the summer and the whole season to trade this guy. If we had to keep him into the season I wouldn't mind seeing him play C. I'd rather have Zbo as my trailer in a fast paced offense than charge waiting to happen Curry anyway.
wow, that's all you can get for the Defensive Player of the Year? surprising.
hard to imagine getting a first rounder for zach now.
Maybe Lee and Zach will be included in a deal for Camby, Tim Thomas and a future pick... That could work... I dont think a deal with the Clips is totally dead yet...
I don't like the idea of Camby, he's 34 years old and injury-prone, it's only gonna go downhill from here for him IMO. His salary is relatively low for the next 2 years so I can see where it would help us. Injury-prone players make me nervous.
i hope walsh knows what he doing
i don't see how zach will play in the new uptempo system
he is slow footed and about as athletic as my grandma..LOL
i think walsh should have pulled the trigger
but am going to assume walsh knows what he is doing
the key word is "assume"
but what are the nuggets going
to do without a center?
nene is always hurt,kenyon martin still has bad knees
don't they need someone to rebound?
I'm on the same apage with John Q
Still time to trade Z-Bo. Camby is older and was injury prone, then again perhaps a follow up trade might be in the works as many here suggest. But isn't there a grace period before a recently traded player can then be traded again.
If that's what Camby is worth...doesn't that mean a young Zbo at 20 and 10 should be worth more??
Maybe Walsh just uppped the ante...
If that's what Camby is worth...doesn't that mean a young Zbo at 20 and 10 should be worth more??
Maybe Walsh just uppped the ante...just bloggin'.
Damn it! Just Bloggin'...
it seems like pretty basic business sense to NOT sell assets when their value is down. right now z-bo's value is at a career low. i'm the last guy in here to defend the zbo's game, but let's TRY to be a bit objective about this guy:
he is a career 47% shooter.
he is a career 78% FT shooter.
he career averages 8 boards a game.
he is 26 years old, 8 years younger than marcus camby.
he can create his own shot. if you need a bucket he can probably get one; in truth, there are few players in this league that can do this consistently.
do i want to trade randolph? absolutely. do i think we should have dumped him for a 2nd rounder? no way. donnie did the right thing not pulling the trigger on that deal. z-bo will be traded, but it may not happen immediately, it may even take another year (at which time z-bo will be worth even more, as his contract will be shorter).
the fact of the matter is, there is no particular advantage to clearing out salary at this point, we're not really looking to take on any new commitments. let randolph play with a good coach in a sane environment, let his contract get shorter, and we'll get good value for him in good time.
the more pressing contractual issue for the knicks is david LEE, and to a lesser extent, n8. both will become restricted FA's after this season, and both will be seeking long term deals. it is not inconceivable that lee could command a 5/60 deal, and n8 might get 5/30, and maybe even more if he has a breakout season under d'antoni.
there is no way the knicks can commit to lee for that kind of money, and thus i think now is the time to trade my favorite player (hey, it's business, and i want to win). teams who believe they are on the cusp of winning it all (pistons, lakers, jazz, spurs, suns, rockets) will likely overpay if they feel lee is the missing piece of the puzzle. conversely, they might seriously think about locking n8 up now, perhaps they could get him for 3/15. for all of you ready to puke, the guy can ball. he can bring it up, he can board, he can shoot the 3, and he can man-up speedy points. in this league, he is worth 5 per, and i don't think that kind of commitment puts a dent in the 2010 philosophy.
rebuilding is slow and ugly, you can't rush it, and unfortunately you can't just throw the garbage out and start fresh. trade lee now for a high future pick, trade randolph later for a late 1st rounder, clear cap space, cut out the cancer, build around gallo, the thrill, n8 and jamal. throw in a couple of more good picks, add the right role players, sign bosh or lebron in 2010, and in two to three years you might be playing some very big games in early summer.
Yo, Fixers. Been a while...
I've been bouncing around the webs reading NYK fans' reaction to this Camby deal. Seems to be a lot of rage directed at Walsh, because he refused to trade a 20/10 guy for a 2nd round pick.
If you're raging at Walsh because Z-Bo is still on the roster, maybe you oughta back slowly away from the computer, go outside and take a walk. Take some deep breaths. Do some yoga or something.
Everybody used to rage at Isiah because he'd make hasty, ill-considered moves. Now it seems a lot of NYK fans want to rage at Walsh for not making a hasty move.
What, exactly, do we want from our GM? And should we as Knick fans feel entitled to complain about everything?
Everybody calm down. Zach will be moved, and Walsh will probably get back more than a 2nd rounder for him.
Patience. We're in better shaped now than we were last year, even if Zach is still in NY.
@sec11rowh, Come on man, 12 mil per for Lee, you must be kidding. Marcus Camby being as good a rebounder, a perenial shot blocking leader and a defensive player of the year to boot, never got more than 7 mil per in his entire career. I personally think Camby was underpaid, but that bracket seems about right for Lee.
I also was very disappointed with the Clippers deal not happening, But I hope Donnie has a plan and am willing to wait it out. Let's give him some space and time. Let's not put pressure on him by reacting harshly to every trade that does not happen for whatever reason.
From the clips point of view
the trade does not make sense
Kamen plays center and now they traded for Camby
how are they going to play Kamen and Camby togther?
neither has the kind of game that would
allow the clips to move either to power forward
that seems like an odd tandem
maybe we can trade zach to the nuggets?
Alan
the knicks sign florida guard robertson
to a two year deal...hmmm.
i like that guy.he scored 22pts
and had a nice stroke on the 3 ball
where does that leave marbury?
Agree with the posters who point out that Camby isn't a great fit for the Clips, but poorly fitting personnel moves are one of the things bad GM's do. Kind of like acquiring Zach without dumping Curry. Apparently the Clips front office is pretty chaotic, with Baylor, Dunleavy and others on different pages, and that team has been known to make bad moves for years. My guess is that they've been in panic mode since Brand screwed them, and they jumped at the first deal for a big that presented itself. They may still be willing to deal, but they may also be content to rack up another losing season with a mismatched front court. Although Kamen and Camby could be a formidable duo on the defensive end and on the boards.
As for Zach, the risk is that his poor decision making or conditioning could be a problem in an up-tempo game and cost him minutes. I doubt, based on his career numbers and the willingness of many GM's to ignore that those numbers were piled up on horrible teams, that he will be immovable down the road. Fixing this mess will take patience.
Walsh blew it, it wasnt about getting a second round pick..It was about dumping zach without taking on anyone else...Walsh absolutely blew it
NYC - come back on that? Roberson for two years?
Where did you see that? Doesn't that give us 16 players under contract, unless (ominous music)............
I know we can carry more than the 15 for training camp etc... but can you have more than 15 contracts? Somebody must go, no?
Papi Alan - whaddya hear?
I think Donnie Walsh got burned here. Teams are not lining up for Zach Randolph. Walsh will either end up stuck with him or will have to trade him for an equally worse contract. Walsh is fooling himself if he thinks a team will trade a productive player in his prime or young prospects for a cancer like Randolph. Walsh should have taken that 2nd rounder and be done with it.
Houston is said to be looking to make moves. Their relationship with Landry is complicated now, and he may not resign, and they need front court help - Deke is their only center now. What is music to fixer ears (least mine) is that its said that they would move Dorsey and Novak to do it. Dorsey is not signed yet, and I'd love to have him. Novak is a good fit for D'Antoni too - long, smart, shooter. Might they take Rose as a loaner until they figure out that spot? Low risk for them, a great pro on short time to hold the fort.
The more you look at it, Denver's move looks like the beginning of the end for that squad as currently comprised. No Najera, now no Camby. Hmmmm. Is KMart really all they need? Just looking at their salaries, Nene seems the expensive, oft injured one. Man he's clocking dollars for a long time. I think they got ripped off.
Saw the Roberson signing.....gotta be another shoe to that one.
@ Willis - NY Post reported Coach D loves 'em and didn't want anyone else to invite him to training camp.
That guy CAN shoot, which is definitely needed.
As you said, that is 16 contracts...dum dee dum dum.
Buh-bye, Big Snacks...
Forget the medical retirement or whatever - at this point just buy James out - eat the money, open the space and free the fans from even having to see his name on a Knicks' roster ever again.
i feel like something big is gonna happen soon...
after one summer league game, they decide to sign roberson? marbury's being bought out or there are some moves in the works. gotta be...
what's the word, alan?
c'mon Walshy boy .... blow this team up:
James- Buyout ... c ya
Marbury- Buyout ... c ya
Lee- trade him (love him but he doesn't fit this system ... let's get some value for him)
Z-Bo- work some magic here, trade this fool
Nate - dump him after this year ... he thinks he's better than he is, sure, he's athletic but he's undersized and can't handle PG duties ... I don't want a 5 foot nothing 2 gurad on this team (no matter how high he can jump) ... trade him w/ Lee if you can
that frees up 5 spots and leaves us w/ Crawford, Duhon, Dano, Curry, Q, Roberson?, Rose, Chandler, Balkman, Jeffries, Jones? (not sure if we could get him back or not), Collins
That's 11 ... 12 w/ Jones ... plus 2 players for the Lee, Z-Bo, Nate trades and then you grab another summer league guy
Let's flip this sh!t
Isiah is a scum and is old news.
We should talk about the future not the past.
Roberson signing could mean more pine time for Mardy Collins.
He doesn’t fit in D’Antoni’s run & gun style.
Heck, he can’t even excel in Summer League.
How'd Alan miss this? just bloggin'
Don ADO - Good post! I believe Walsh is acting in a professional manner. The GM in Denver is who I question!
We've known for several years that a process needed to be followed that would require patience. Come on Knicks fans; give the man a chance to do his job!
i cant take this.....we have to get rid of zach...what if he plays worse next year (definitely possible)....then hes gonna be getting paid way tooo much and no one wanting him....and then no lebron or anyone else in that free agent class....someone kill me....we dont need anything back for zach....urnt going to get anything good...if the guy is good...they wouldnt trade him for zach.....to basically find someone willing to put 48 mil in their cap space for the next 3 years is amazing enough...but to turn it down because u want more??? r u kidding me? pray we get rid of Z-bo this summer because if not....no lebron or any other free agents in 2010.....u shouldnt be looking at this trade as zach for a second rounder....but more as zach for a chance at a big name....because thats what it is...im sooo pissed
i like zach randolph we need to trade fat lazy eddy curry
What is going on with basketball today when players who can shoot are being described as good fits for D'antoni's system?
If you play basketball, shouldn't you be able to shoot, at least a little? Different positions call for different ranges, but these are professional basketball players. Good shooting should be a bare necessity for anyone who gets payed millions of dollars a year to play this game.
Am I just crazy? Am I missing something?
how about these two trades tracy mcgrady and steve novak for marbury expiring contract david lee and a future 2 round pick. this would be a great trade for both teams. i think houston would go for it considering that yao ming and tracy mcgrady can"t stay healthy for a whole season and it gives them much needed cap relief.The knicks greatest benefit would be getting rid of marbury and getting back a true shooting guard with all-star credentials.jamal crawford would come off the bench where he need to be anyway.
Another trade i would consider would be sending zach randolph and nate robinson or renaldo balkman to the nuggets for kenyon martin and linas kleiza or we can replace zach with lazy ass eddy curry and malik rose
starting lineup would be
chris duhon
tracy mcgrady
wilson chandler
kenyon martin
eddy curry
All I can say is I hope Walsh has a plan, because I did not like the fact he didn't dump Z-Bo's salary when he had the chance. Particularly now that LAC said "the hell with the Knicks, lets hit up Denver," and Denver pulled that trigger.
I understand wanting to get value for a 20-10 guy. I get that. But if your eye is on Lebron and getting the Knicks under the cap by 2010, you need to dump huge salary when you can.
He had an opportunity and didn't do it. That was puzzling.
The fact another team did it after we were given the first bite at the apple stings, and as a fan, I now expect Walsh to come up with something...quick.
New York Knicks
Incoming Players
Larry Hughes
Salary: $12,827,676 Years Remaining: 2
Drew Gooden
Salary: $7,151,183 Years Remaining: 1
Thabo Sefolosha
Salary: $1,931,160 Years Remaining: 1
Outgoing Players: Zach Randolph, Malik RoseChicago Bulls
Incoming Players
Zach Randolph
Salary: $14,666,667 Years Remaining: 3
Malik Rose
Salary: $7,647,500 Years
Across the Hudson:
Of course NBA players (except for Ben Wallace) can shoot. Saying "that guy is a shooter" means his skill is in the higher echelon and you can count on the guy in critical spots.
It's the difference between say a Ray Allen/Allan Houston-skilled player and say a...hmm...a LeBron.
King James isn;t a shooter. He's a scorer. He can get hot and drain them, but who is more consistent outside shooter? James, or Ray Allen? Allen.
Not saying anyone on the current Knicks roster is at THAT high a level, but you should get the meaning.
New York Knicks
Incoming Players
Andray Blatche
Salary: $2,739,669 Years Remaining: 4
Antonio Daniels
Salary: $6,200,000 Years Remaining: 2
Caron Butler
Salary: $9,249,980 Years Remaining: 3
Outgoing Players: Stephon Marbury, David LeeWashington Wizards
Incoming Players
Stephon Marbury
Salary: $20,840,625 Years Remaining: 1
David Lee
@Brian from Sacramento
I get what you're saying, but what about a Jarred Jeffries, or even a David Lee for that matter?
Since basketball is a sport where height plays such a HUGE roll, it seems only inevitable that there'd be a bunch of tall guys who take advantage of that natural advantage and don't work hard on their game. I think it's just sad that they don't have the commitment to get better at their chosen profession, one that happens to be enormously fun. It's not like they really need to brush up their Excel skills.
But, just to avoid any confusion, I'm not saying D Lee isn't working at becoming a better shooter. We know he's got that desire.
I love all these RealGM trade scenarios that come up (or whatever Web site it is). Why in the world would D.C. take Stephon Marbury? D.C. is a playoff team with an already capable backup to Agent Zero. That sort of trade may work numbers-wise, but no one in their right mind would do that from the Wiz's point of view.
I love the passion fellow Fixers, but there is a huge reality check between making numbers match, and actually seeing where a trade makes sense for both parties.
Anyone who thinks the Knicks should trade David Lee is insane.