A die hard Knicks fan sent this to me early this morning. I watched it and had to share. What a great era in basketball those days were.
Here is one of several crushing Knick losses from the 1990s, when they always seemed so close but couldn't get that one critical win. Still, when you watch this, you see what the current Knicks team is lacking -- and it's not talent.
This will be bittersweet, but enjoy.
Comments (49)
yo Alan, you put up the wrong youtube
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZfAwwxDLU0s
Phenomenal. Nobody on the current team would care enough to dive after balls or get in opponents faces like X-Man. Its all effort. Effort is all desire. We have a bunch of fat/lazy/indifferent players. We have some guys who care (Jamal, Lee, Q, maybe Zach) but none of those guys are good enough to demand the respect of the fat/lazy indifferent guys. Jamal is trying, but its just not enough.
Here is what needs to be done:
The only players on the Knicks with more than 2 years left are Jeffries, Q, Jamal and Zach. Jeffries and Q get paid too much. Jamal gets paid just about the right amount. Zach is untradeable.
We have some great cheap peices: Lee, Nate, Balkman, Curry. All tradeable.
What needs to happen is to trade the cheap peices in packages with Jeffries, Q, and Jamal, all for players-any players, with 2 years or less left on their deals.
When those two years are up, you let everyone, and I mean everyone walk. Steph, Malik, whoever is left.
Basically our roster at that point would be comprised of Zach Randolph and whoever we draft this year and next.
The summer of '09 boasts Wade, Lebron and others as the premier free agents.
What you have is the possibility of Wade or Lebron, with Zach Randolph and Derrick Rose (hopefully) or OJ Mayo (Steph 2) running the show.
The only problem is Isiah will never do this. He needs to go, and the new GM needs to execute this plan.
martin - that is video is farging hilarious. made my day.
Alan's video made me want to cry. martin's cracked me up. Looking back, I can't believe the Knicks have fallen so far.
When all else fails, feed these Knicks players steroids and all kinds of performance enhancing drugs. That's the quick fix solution that Coach Thomas is contemplating right now.
And Isiah is the kind of guy to make this happen.
Alan,
Your video made me sing
Those were the days my friends, we thought they never end.
It's a damn shame.
Martin,
Thanks a lot, I needed that.
Why are these videos supposed to be inspirational? The Knicks lost. What? Because they fought hard to lose it is supposed to make me feel better? Jordan...Pippen...still killed them. The Knicks still lost. What's the difference bw losing then and losing now?
This Knick team is young. Inexperienced.
You don't compared a vet team to a young team. Its not a fair comparison.
You guys should stick to sexual harassment suits, AWOL stories and coach vs fans arguments.
by the way, thanks for the heartbreaking memories. Looked more like a Jordan highlight reel than a feel-good Knicks reel.
Actually Anonymous-
In '92 Ewing, Starks and Oakley had been in the league about 7 years.
Curry, Crawford, Jamal, Q, Jeffries, Jerome, Zach, Steph, Malik all have 7+ years in the league.
This team is no more "young" than that Knicks team was.
The difference was that the 92 team played hard and this team of "young" guys does not.
Get your facts straight.
In 92, Ewing was 30.
Oakley 29,
Starks 27
So what. Who cares how old they are. They had equal experience in the league didn't they? Ewing was drafted in 1985. He had 7 years of experience by 1992.
Eddy Curry is in his 7th year, Jamal is in his 8th, Steph is in his 11th. That's MORE experience for our top 3 players than Oakley, Ewing and Starks had in 1992.
Lack of experience is not an excuse for this team. Lack of heart is.
It would make more sense to hold on to the younger players and try to fall below the cap again while rebuilding. The Knicks are always looking for quick fix be it trade or draft.
If the Knicks traded all of their star players they would empty out cap room. No team is going to take on Marbury for that much money or the other of Isiah's mistakes - at least in their right mind.They would also be a better team with less star power.
Everyone wants the ball and be the one who does it all. No team is stupid to sign our overpaid players to long term contracts and bail us out of or cap nightmares. Less is more. Addition by subtraction.
Marbury would cry like a baby if and when he is bought out. Then he would forget about once he gets his check from Dolan. Curry is the biggest mistake the Knicks made in their franchise history next to losing to the Rockets in 1994 finals and draft F. Weiss in 1999. Buy outs is the only way if trades can't happen. But like when you have a problem admit your in DENIAL first. It's a start. We should state that we are rebuilding. The fans will understand if they chose that route.
Dan - people are STILL trying to make excuses for the sorry state of this team. Unbelievable.
Anon - if you don't like the video above, go watch some quality teams on t.v., (hint - they win more than half their games) learn what competitive basketball played by well constructed and well coached teams that care looks like, then come back when you have some perspective.
Pete-
I agree.
I'd also like to point out the well-known fact that Jamal Crawford is currently the RECORD-HOLDER for most games played without a playoff appearance. I believe Eddy Curry is number 2.
That means those two guys have MORE EXPERIENCE than anyone in the league without having gone to the playoffs. We're talking hundreds upon hundreds of games here.
And I like Jamal so I'm not trying to rag on him, but the problem is not experience.
They stink from the head down,and I feel sorry for the younger guys having to come into the league with a team like this must be like being born to a crack addict mother.
How can these 2nd and 3rd year players learn how to get ahead?
Send this Article to Isiah Thomas :
Madison Square Garden has become a stable nesting ground for boo-birds lately, as the Knicks have dragged their way to an embarrassing 6-14 record through the first quarter of the season. Recent reports suggest that Isiah Thomas is unhappy with the fans, labeling their relentless booing as the culprit for the team’s dismal play.
Nowadays many of the Garden faithful have been heard booing Thomas and his players during player introductions. However, the heavy showering of jeers normally only begins to surface once the team digs itself into a routine early double-digit deficit.
The age-old question can be applied to this current Knicks' situation – Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Which came first, the poor play or the booing?
While Thomas has blamed the fans for the team’s lackluster starts, the onus can only be placed on himself when you look at the lineups he has put on the floor so far this season.
The Knicks have a very talented roster, but the majority of their personnel are blatantly one-dimensional ballplayers. For every offensive-minded player who lacks defensive intensity and the notion to distribute the ball to his teammates (think Eddy Curry), they have a ruthless defensive-oriented player who looks immediately to pass because he’s incapable of putting the ball in the hoop (think Jared Jeffries).
The sole purpose of constructing a team with the intention of developing team chemistry is to integrate these differing styles of play so that they complement one another properly. This is where Isiah Thomas is guilty of being the chicken.
His normal starting five consists of Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Quentin Richardson, Zach Randolph, and Eddy Curry. His second team often consists of Fred Jones, David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, and Jared Jeffries. This demonstrates that Thomas likes to deploy two units: one comprised solely of selfish ball-hogs who lack any tenacity on defense or on the boards, while the second group loves nothing more than shutting down their man defensively and getting to the ball at all costs.
Perhaps if Thomas decided to intertwine his first and second units, he would be able to avoid the routine mid-first quarter timeout with the Knicks already down twelve and the looming Garden fans already calling for their heads. Not a single player in his starting lineup is renowned for having defensive competence and blocked shots occur as often as New York City subway stations get cleaned.
Isiah Thomas has been reluctant in the past to shake up his starting lineup because he feels that he likes to insert his ‘energy guys’ including Balkman, Lee, and Nate Robinson when the team needs a boost. But wouldn’t the team best be served by having these sparkplugs in the game from the onset? Why wait until the team is facing a ten-point deficit to bring in guys who are willing to push the envelope and change the tempo of the game?
So, what starting lineup should Isiah Thomas consider using? Let’s take a closer look.
With the recent absence of point guard Stephon Marbury, it is clear he is the most capable distributor (7.3 assists per 48 min) on the roster and the only ‘starter’ who can really bring a nasty defensive edge when needed. His ability to penetrate the lane and kick the ball to open teammates gives the Knicks better ball movement. He can also take command of the game in spurts and is shooting 42% from downtown. He must remain the starting point guard.
The strongest part of Jamal Crawford’s game is his uncanny ability to catch fire and score at will when bobbing and weaving at the top of the key. His numbers also suggest that he is the second-most capable ball distributor on the roster (5.4 assists per 48 min) and thus should lead the second unit.
Stepping into the shooting guard position should be Marbury’s current replacement in the starting five, Fred Jones. He has been a solid defender and is putting up 14.2 points, 4.8 rebounds, 3.8 assists, and 2.2 steals per 48 min. while shooting a healthy 34% from three-point.
Quentin Richardson needs to take a seat. While his rebounding has been effective, his defense and conditioning are severely suspect, and his shot has been just unbearably awful (32% from field, 28% from three). His extreme competitiveness and fiery demeanor in the huddle are often the cause for his overrated status as a ‘stout defender.’
He has to be replaced by second-year standout Renaldo Balkman. While Balkman doesn’t offer much offensively, he has grabbed 10.5 points, 10.5 rebounds and leads the team with 1.47 blocks per 48 min. His defensive prowess is unmatched on the roster, and his 54% shooting from the field can be attributed to his superior awareness around the hoop for easy put-backs off of offensive rebounds.
The pairing of Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph must take a detour if Isiah wishes to right this sinking ship. Both guys are much better without the other on the floor, and both guys are capable of having the offense run through them. While both are sluggish and uninspired on defense, Randolph is a prolific rebounder, which gives him the nod over Curry in the starting five. Z-Bo has delivered 25.0 points, 14.7 rebounds, 2.2 assists, and 1.21 steals per 48 minutes, compared to Eddy’s 24.1, 8.8, 0.9, and 0.42, respectively.
The last starting roster spot belongs to the ball-hawking Mr. Intangibles David Lee. Lee has been efficient on defense and just as dominant as Randolph on the boards. His 17.8 points and 14.5 rebounds per 48 min give the Knicks ample second chance opportunities to control the game while he pairs with Balkman to put-back any shot left short by the guards.
This new starting five of Marbury, Jones, Balkman, Randolph, and Lee will give the Knicks a penetrating distributor, two three-point threats, a low post monster, a lock-down defender, three complimentary solid defenders, three guys to clean the boards, and two to thrive on put-back baskets under the hoop.
The second unit will enlist the dynamic offensive pairing of Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry, who have developed a strong bond on and off the court since their playing days in Chicago. Richardson and Robinson will not only offer Crawford and Curry options to kick to for open three-point shots but will also team with defensive specialist Jared Jeffries to supply the team with solid rebounding (Richardson 10.0, Robinson 6.9, and Jeffries 8.9 rebounds per 48 min).
This rotation shake-up is just what the Knicks need to get back on track. Despite their woeful record, they are still easily within striking range of reaching the playoffs. They are only three games out of the eighth seed with over sixty games left to play.
The most difficult part of this situation is that Isiah’s current lineup is currently stocked with some of the biggest egos and playing-time whiners in the league. It would take a miracle for Zeke to have the guts to remove the aforementioned three starters from the opening lineup to better set the team up to succeed.
Going back to the original question – what exactly is causing this disgraceful play by this talented and deep Knicks' team? Is it the booing that is causing them to lose confidence and thus affecting their ability to compete at a high level? Or, is it Isiah’s one-dimensional rotations that put them in a position to fail, which ultimately leads to booing?
This dilemma seems a little easier for Thomas to answer than the age-old question of whether the chicken or the egg came first…
Feel free to contact Jason M. Williams with your thoughts. He can be reached at Jason.Williams@RealGM.com for comments or questions.
Link to article is :
http://www.realgm.com/src_twoplusthefoul/170/20071212/the_chicken_or_the_egg/
MARTIN:
Real funny video, I was in tears watching that one.
Hey, Jimmy Dolan should've been in the video instead of Zach :D
Anonymous, you are a moron. Stay Anonymous jackass.
on msg the other night there was an msg vault episode and they showed dr.js lasst game at the garden against the 80s knicks...it looked like we were watching the present knicks but with a little more effort i didnt know it could get worse than the 80s for us but it far beyond that
Martin
soooo danm funny
keepers are z-bo lee balkman collins n chandler.every1 else can do the bounce trade them quick.if your really tryna rebuild u trade guys for any1.like what portland did.those guys mayo an derrick they scrubz they gonna be alrite players the draft has no1 that i know like a durant there is no college player rite now that u can build around..u gotta get guys like gerald green dorell wright an develop them into stars.stay tuned for more knowledge
I bear some responsibility for raising the specter of ping-pong balls. But I was only half serious. More than anything, it was meant as a metaphor to suggest how desperate the current situation is.
No, you can’t completely tank a season after 20 games. But it depends on how you orient your team. Don’t make stupid trades to win at all costs now. Play your young players so they gain experience and you know what you’ve got. I’ve often thought it was folly when teams go all-out doing anything and everything possible to secure the 8th place in the playoffs. Especially when the lottery could make them stronger in the long run. Obviously, New York fans have a unique experience about where 8th place in the playoffs can lead. But I don’t think anybody would imagine this team could go to the Finals.
You can’t give up on a season so early. But you can decide to play for the future not the present.
George -- you should just ignore Anonymous. He's been banned here and needs to hide behind "Anonymous" just to be heard. (Don't Feed the Troll.)
The video took me back to a better place.
After watching that video, today's Knicks look like a bunch of candy azz little boys.
A big heart will carry you pretty far.
I am for tanking and trading heartless players for cap space and draft picks.
The only way I hold on to some of these guys is to see WHO gets the #'s 1,2, and 3 picks and try to trade in the offseason prior to the draft.
So Curry wants out and Q, Rose, and Lee also are begging to be gone.
Keep up the good work, Isiah and Dolan!!!
Knicks lose by 30 tonight.
Lee begging to be gone? where do you get that info from? I mean, I know people say that all the time, usually they're not knicks fans, but is there any empirical evidence, ie a quote from david lee or david lee's mom from the family fued which stipulates such a perception?
Just because the other teams want him doesn't mean he wants to leave the Knicks. Don't speak for the man.
Nobody's begging to be gone.
Vescey's brain is begging for oxygen.
Josh Smith on the hawks is in his last year of his contract. If I were the Knicks I would try to buy someone out to sign this Kid. He has size and most likely wants out of Atlanta.
when i see this video 2 things come to mind:
1) the nba today is a pathetic shadow of its former self
2) the knicks players of today should not be allowed to wear a knicks jersey ever again and should publicly apologize for disrespecting the team colors
Questions: why does a career 37% shooter get the most shots on the Knicks? And why was Jeffries STARTING? Isiah's incompetence as a coach - his cluelessness - has become so obvious that he is just flailing. Stick that guy in there and see what happens... Its not like there is an offensive or defensive system to mess up.
The there is Curry, with his 3 reb/1 asst/0 pt double single. Nice homecoming for the franchise player. I'm not the biggest Noah fan, but I'd take him straight up for Curry in a heartbeat.
If no one wants out, its because they realize that no other organization will offer huge contracts with no pressure to win games. "Welcome to the Knicks! You'll be expected to cash cheques, take your beatings and smile for the Jumbotron. Just like the coach/GM."
AR - I would love to see Josh Smith here. But there's no way he signs for the mid-level, and we have no cap room.
Seeing Curry stand there as Hinrich waltzes in for an unopposed lay up made me want to scream.
Hello All Disgusted, Miserable, Die-Hard Knick Fans,
Sunday December 30th 2007
11:00 AM (Noon Game)
Protest in front of MSG to OUST ISIAH.
The time has come to raise our voices.
Knicks vs. Bulls (Sure to be another pitiful loss!)
email: joeyvworks@yahoo.com
Step up and push to get Isiah removed!
Hello All Disgusted, Miserable, Die-Hard Knick Fans,
Sunday December 30th 2007
11:00 AM (Noon Game)
Protest in front of MSG to OUST ISIAH.
The time has come to raise our voices.
Knicks vs. Bulls (Sure to be another pitiful loss!)
email: joeyvworks@yahoo.com
Step up and push to get Isiah removed!
I don't get how the Nets can be that awful despite having Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson on their team. How can they underachieve that badly and without Kidd, they'd be almost as bad rhe Knicks.
The Nets are bad due to chemistry. Carter and Jefferson can't exist and they need a legit bigman. Our problem is 1 or 2 scorers more than what we need in the starting lineup. And of course lack of D, and turnovers.
We have managed to be as mysterious as always.
Tank! Trade! Draft!
You guys now blame the Nets for being bad,
instead of giving credit to the knicks for playing a good
game! Puleeze! Get a life!
WHERE'S ALAN?
as the regulars here know, i bleed blue and orange. but i must confess, i am so disgusted with this team, that i was dismayed when i found out they actually won tonight. i do not want the occasional victory, which will only prolong the agony of the isiah era. isiah MUST go, the sooner the better, so i truly want the knicks to lose, lose lose, every night, eervy week, until this nightmare is over. it's too early to tank the season in order to get a top point guard in the draft, but it's high time to tank it in order to get that sorry, lying, inept, sexist, s.o.b. out of this town once and for all.
I know exactly what sec11rowH is saying. My feelings about this team are conflicted in the extreme. I, too, was almost disappointed when I saw they’d won. Why? Because it means nothing. Indeed, in the sick universe of MSG these days, I fear it could even be a set-back toward getting this team on track. Sure, the team has to "learn how to win." But I'm afraid Dolan and Isiah will use any glimmer of hope as justification to maintain the status quo. But I hate feeling like this. Of course, I want the team to do well. I just no longer believe that this roster, with this coach/GM is the answer. We need CHANGE. And we need change NOW.
I don’t think we should tank the season. BUT . . . I only want to see the young players. Let them get as much experience as possible. Let them learn, and let’s learn what they’ve got.
We should be playing for next season, and the season after. Of course, I’m assuming that means a lottery pick. Isiah wasted the last two. It's true we have some talent on this team, although most are one-dimensional players. We need a GM who knows how to bring in players that complement the rest of the team. Isiah knows talent, but he’s always gone for the players he likes . . . never the players we need. So the talent is one-dimensional; and the roster is full of holes.
NOBODY ON THIE TEAM SHOULD BE EVEN CLOSE TO UNTOUCHABLE. It would depend on who’s available, and what the roster would look like. We have no Kobe or Lebron to build around. Personally, I’d like to keep Lee and Balkman and Zach, and I’d drive anybody else to JFK. But depending on who we could get, I certainly would consider including those guys in a deal, too.
If we can get Artest, and lock him into a long-term deal, I’d love to play Zach and Ron at the forwards for the next 5 years. Everything else that happens this year should be done to support the team over the next 3-5 years. This year is lost. It makes no difference if we win 25, 30 or 35 games. Forget 40 or 42. It’ll never happen. We’d have to play 9 games over .500 (34 and 25) the rest of the way to make 42 wins. No way. So let’s make this year valuable by preparing us better for the years ahead.
The problem with this team is the lack of consistency. They need a group of guys who are confident that they can win games every night. It looks as if they need constant motivation from the coach or booing fans at times to excel. They still need a trade(s) to salvage this season. Give us fans reason to hope things will really change and not just change for one night every two weeks.
I say go after Josh Smith from the Hawks or Ron Artest from Sacramento Kings. I would trade a player or two or buy out a player to acquire either of them. If any one will trade for Eddy Curry the Knicks will be out of their mind not to see and hear what a team will offer for him. I would take first round draft pick or numerous second round picks for him. Especially, if it's for a defensive post player that can score or one they can seek in the draft.
Trane,
Grow a set. You call yourself a fan!
Stop being a Pus#y! " Shyt for mommy!" lol
That’s right, I call myself a fan – a fan who’s not blind to the many problems this team faces. A realistic fan who recognizes this team needs major changes if it’s ever going to move ahead. It’s sort’a cute that peaceman can go into every game lately predicting the Knicks will win. (You can look it up.) We need only look at the standings to know what those predictions have been worth.
This team has problems at all levels. Ownership, management, coach and roster. There are chemistry problems and, in the end, the level of talent is still marginal. Even the players with talent are woefully one-dimensional. It’s too late into Isiah’s tenure at this point to keep bringing up the Layden roster. That’s old news. Someone should do a study that tracks all the different rosters Isiah has played with in the last 4 years.
Besides, it was Isiah Lord Thomas who said he could win with this roster. HIS hand-picked roster. He’s proven he can’t. Case closed. Next.
Look, I never liked the guy, but last year it seemed he’d gotten through to this team, and they were responding to him. For that, I believed he deserved a shot at this year. I never imagined it could have turned into this big of a disaster. But it has. Let’s not look at the world through rose-colored glasses, like some do. Let’s not defend that which deserves no defense. Let’s make difficult choices. Let’s try to bring a few shreds of respectability back to this franchise.
really, WHERE'S ALAN?
trane's got the right idea, play the kids, i was intrigued by the athleticism i saw fron chandler in chicago, particularly at the defensive end when they were pressing full court. isiah is a psycho with the kids, starting them one week, benching them for two. could you imagine having this guy as a parent? yikes! lee pay 15 minutes against the nets, Q starts and plays 36, jeffries is the first big off the bench? uhh? nate is now the fourth guard on the depth charts? we've gotten blown off the court at least half a dozen times, and all randolph morris has to show for it is splinters? zeke-bitch needs to be medicate, what did his dad to to him that he has to torture the young knicks?
and yes, zbo is the only veteran on this team worth keeping around, he is a ballplayer. i don't understand why it is that half the people in this blog are down on this guy. he has great fundamentals, a great shot, long arms, a big ass, terrific rebounding instincts....everything you could ask for in an nba player. sure, he isn't the toughest defender, but how many guys in this league really excell at both ends?
anyway, it is all so hopeless until hapless isiah-bitch is gone, so i truly just want themto lose every game until that blessed (and inevitable) time comes.
Like I said Trane, Grow a set!
You care more about Fireing Zeke than the Knicks period!
Come on Trane, Shyt for Mommy!
This is your Berman blog self showing! No backbone. You are the ultimate Pus#y! More than 75% of the season left! Suck on that
cream puff! You are the only thing that's "OVER."
Trane is nothing more than a passive agressive MARK!
At least Mark is up front about his hate!
Trane is a "Back door Coward."
Whoa -- good morning, folks. I'd only like to point out those last two posts are brought to you by the crew that likes to call others "haters."
Basketball, anyone? Or should we remain on the playground, calling each other bad names?
Trane- that’s right, I call you a fan as well – a fan who spends too much time defending himself on messageboards...write a book!
I don't know where Alan is, but he should have taken Curry and Jeffries with him.
Peace – I’m genuinely sorry my opinions make you so defensive. And so angry. (Then again, if I’d been predicting wins all week, I’d be a wee bit defensive too.)
Reading your posts, I’m reminded of the episode of The Sopranos when psycho soccer mom Janice gets in a fight with another mom at a game and is sentenced to anger-management classes.
Haters . . . indeed.
Then again, randon is probably right – this isn’t worth it. So, Peace, I recommend you lie down for a while, and maybe you’ll feel better. After all, THIS is what upsets you? Why not get upset about something important, try Iraq or global warming. This is freakin’ basketball.
Otherwise put: Gett’a life . . .
yo ALAN...this blog is degrading into name calling, time to step in and change the tenor. it'd isiah-bitch and cotton-ball-curry and star-jerk who need to go on extended vacations, not you.
FIRE ALAN (clap, clap, clapclapclap)