On the Mets beat

Dave, thanks for being the voice of reason...Pedro has been pitching with a tear in his shoulder since what...2001-2?? After getting the durgery to correct the problem, and then seeing his performance when he returned, I don't understand why everyone says he is done. Certainly the Pedro of 1999-2000 is gone, but he is still very capable. His 2005 season should certainly be a testament to that. Add to the fact, that his shoulder has had the whole off-season to recover, and strengthen, and I think that your 15 wins is pretty accurate. Plus, with Johan ahead of him, he'll be matched up against opposing #2's, and given that most teams don't have a shutdown type starter as their #2, 15 wins may even be conservative.

Of course, this is all assuming he can make 28-32 stats.

dave....don't worry, it will get done? (contract extension)...buster olney reports muts and santana hit a snag over years and dollars....

besides last years historic collapse, i cant imagine muts fans reaction when fridays deadline comes and goes without signing santana. omar is no saint just yet mut fans

Hey 26 champs.....

A little envious are we?

Don't worry, Santana can't start EVERY game of the subway series, so you do have a chance to win at least one game.

Besides, "Mut fans"???

Did you make that up yourself or did your Mom come up with it for you?

Just keep living in the past with your "26 rings". You'll be alright.

Yeah Johnny, he's just another jealous Skankee fan. Can't wait for the Mets & Red Sox in the Series this year after the Sox slap the Skankees all over the place all year!

26 champs is a real Richard

One LOSS !!!

Thats all we want!!!

LETS GO GIANTS!!

I hear ya 26Chumps, but wouldn't it be better to face the Skankees in the WS and spank their pinstriped butts 4-0?

Seriosly, WHO CARES ABOUT SPANKSTERS!!

We got to sign JOHAN !!!

Drop the money bags Minaya!! Quit screwing around already!!

If we don't sign this guy, consider the Mets DONE!

I cannot suffer through another horrific collapse !!

GET IT DONE !!!

Seemingly lost in the details of last year's collapse is the fact that the Mets went to a six-man rotation to accommodate Martinez. And while Martinez pitched well, others did not and that might well be because of the extra day (or two, dependent upon off-days).
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If the Mets' rotation is to fire on all cylinders, I think they're best of with regularity, a routine. If Martinez and Senor Methuselah are on some kind of irregular, Johnny Carson work schedule, then they'd be best to consign either or both to the DL. That kind of schedule regarding pitching is wholly and provably unworkable.
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So as it stands, Pedro, pro-rating his 4yr/$53mil contract, has earned $39,750,000.00 so far. And he's won 27 games. So that works out to be an astounding $1.47 million per win. I just hope Santana's win-per-dollar ratio will work out better.
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And continuing on here with Met fan devil's advocacy, let us not forget that Pedro recoiled and bristled in Boston when he was no longer "The Man", when blowhard jerk, Curt Schilling brought his ketchup sock and bully pulpit to Fenway. How is Pedro going to fare now that he's suddenly John Oates to Santana's Daryl Hall?
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Either way, the Mets' signing of Martinez has been an unmitigated disaster, but yet, no one really discusses that. In fact, only the Yankees seem to be looked at with a microscope to their expensive busts. I just hope Santana doesn't bring the Mets' numerous failures into the fore by being Mike Hampton, who was widely shown the door by Steve Phillips before signing that obscene contract with Colorado after 2000, a contract that is now being paid by Colorado, Florida and Atlanta. But if you think that's ridiculous, consider the fact that the Mets are still (still!) paying Bobby Bonilla and will continue to do so for decades after a buyout just to get rid of him (he makes $1.1 mil per year (!!) until 2035.

"Either way, the Mets' signing of Martinez has been an unmitigated disaster"

Wha?? I love the internet. Any moron can voice their idiotic ideas...

To my astonishment, in no interview of Pedro, either leading up to or following his return last season from his surgery, did an interviewer ask Pedro about his foot. The season before last the foot, and the special shoe that was customized to mitigate the problem, was all we heard about and now? Not a word.

From what I recall, Pedro has a chronic problem with his foot that cannot be corrected by surgery. While I expect that the rest has helped, I seriously doubt whether the problem just disappeared. So my suggestion, Dave, is to break from the flock of sheep that cover the Mets and ask the question of Pedro, "How's your foot?"

The problem with projecting 30 starts for Pedro is that he's been unable to get that many for the last several years due to an assortment of problems. If the shoulder proves to be sound, it may be the foot or hamstring that puts him on the DL. So, while I agree that Pedro could be penciled in for 15 wins provided he makes 30 starts, I cannot assume he will be able to make that many starts.

Still, I think the Mets have enough depth with Pelrey and whomever else (Heilman, perhaps) to deal with stays on the DL by either Pedro, Duque or both. Should Pedro give us 30 starts after all, the East will be ours.

Kenc wrote: "But if you think that's ridiculous, consider the fact that the Mets are still (still!) paying Bobby Bonilla and will continue to do so for decades after a buyout just to get rid of him (he makes $1.1 mil per year (!!) until 2035"

I never knew about this whole deal, but wow. It's actually from 2011 to 2035. Instead of picking up his $5.9 million salary for the 2000 season, the team pledged to pay him $1,193,248.20 each July 1st from 2011 to 2035 -- nearly $30 million all told. Are there any accountants of economist here who could figure out what that 5.9mil will be worth by the end of the deal? I figure, it can't be good deal, I mean 5 times as much. That's insane. What was Philips thinking? Watching him now on ESPN, you could tell that this guy out thinks himself. But that is ridiculous.

Just one more thing, why it that everyone is penciling Pedro # 2? Clearly, I mean clearly, Maine is the second best pitcher on the Mets. Thoughts?

Thanks to the Yankless for wimping out on Santana. You will live to regret it with every Santana win. Enjoy your "untouchable" starting staff this season in the Bronx. I'd write more but I'm laughing too much!

yanks staff is not untouchable. but certainly is more promising than the mets.

pedro throws 85 m.p.h. at most, for 4.5 innings. he, along with el duque, are continual DL material. you better hope santana signs, otherwise its a celler-dweller season.

Kenc, way off the mark. Do you really think we could've signed Beltran without signing Pedro? Pedro's signing made the mets legitimate. True, he did get hurt, but he was totally worth signing simply because he changed the perception of the team, especially to potential free agents.

Which part of having the best pitcher in baseball and the only two teammates under 27 to both win 15 games is not promising to you? Throw in one of the top pitchers of this generation...

Good luck with H-G-Andy and Mussina, and three guys who've thrown less than 30 innings in their careers combined. Oh and your "ace" Wang.

Speaking of Joba and co did you ever hear of Pulsipher, Wilson, and Isringhausen? If not get ready to this summer. Building your hopes around 3 kids in your rotation is risky business. Then again you can always call...Oh My Goodness Gracious....I'ts Rah-jaj!!!!

Also which of those 26 championships was your favorite?

Wow, I got a lot of bile because I feel the Pedro deal with the Mets has been disappointing. I mean...where does 27 wins over three seasons constitute a success when that player is making over $13 million per year? Steve Trachsel (uhmember him?) won 66 for the Mets since 2001 and he pitched six games in 2005. That's 11 wins per year on average and he made a helluva lot less than Martinez. I'm not some kind of Steve Trachsel Fan Club member or anything, but Martinez has been a bust. Maybe he can win 20 this year. But as of now, $1.47 per win does not constitute a success.
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And the notion that Pedro "attracted" Beltran or anyone else to come to Flushing is ludicrous. And for the poster that posits that Beltran came because of Pedro, that's not true at all---he came for the money. In fact, Scott Boras, Beltran's agent, offered Beltran to the Yankees for less money and fewer years AFTER the Mets had made their offer.
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And "Ali G", booya-ka-sha! And yes, I agree with you on John Maine. He should be the #2, not that that means that much other than posterity. In fact, I think Maine will be the best pitcher this year on the Mets and I think that Santana will be solid to outstanding. Between the two, I think 36-40 wins is not out of the question. And come September, the core of the rotation will be Santana, Maine and Oliver Perez. And Pedro and El Duque will be in the clubhouse playing cards wearing slings.

The notion that Martinez has been a bust is, in the words of the former blogger: Ludicrous!

As a Mets fan for in the excess of 35yrs. - a lot bad, I can tell you from the 1st. day of Martinez' signing he changed the (losing) culture of the franchise. He provided a much needed legitimacy for the Mets for future FA's and acquired players. So, yes Martinez did have an effect on Beltran coming to the Mets. If one remembers the Astros had made a very competitive offer in terms of dollars but less in the number of years. Well known is the lights-out postseason Beltran enjoyed in Houston. After being spurned by the yanks (at a 20% 'discount' to the Mets offer) Beltran could've easily re-upped with Houston. He chose to join the Mets. So, to think Martinez did not have an effect on this is being in a sense of denial.

The Mets started the '05 season 0-5 (Looper blew Martinez' opening day gem against the Reds). It took a dominant Martinez start, 5-hitter, against Smoltz and the Braves to register the teams’ 1st. win. I might add Beltran’ late blast against Smoltz provided the margin of victory. 'Ludicrous!' Based solely on wins and losses?? How about the economic effect? Attendance levels prior to Pedro' arrival are up 36%. On the days Martinez pitches it's either a sellout or close to it. One must also take into consideration the effect Martinez has and will have on the younger pitchers. Recalling a late season game in '07 a camera shot into the dugout and no less than, David Williams, John Maine, Mike Pelfrey and Oliver Perez encircling Martinez hanging on his every (pitching) word. The point is the Mets have already realized the returns on their investment of Martinez in full - with '08 and '09 left. And I’ll bet this won’t the last contact he signs with the team.

Knowing Martinez' legendary competitiveness he will welcome the arrival of another ace in Santana. There'll be a friendly, healthy competitiveness between the two for domination. This obviously is good for the Mets. Barring injury I wouldn't be surprised if Santana AND Martinez share victory total honors.

Hey 26champs, that number is ancient history. unless you think you can raise the babe and all the other players who won those championships from the dead, you wont be seeing any anytime soon. I am so sick of you yankme fans braging about your history when it is just that history, and always putting down the mets. Its only because of your frustration that you have to put down metfans why cant you imature fans just root for your team.

About those Yankless 26 rings, how many were from cheating? I mean how many Yankless have been named and branded as cheaters? Will they give some of those rings back? What a bunch of phonies. Yankless fans must be real proud. The funny part is, even with all the cheating, they still continue to flop out in the 1st round every year. Can't wait to see their hot-shot starting five this season, possible 3rd place .Too funny!!!

What I love about this deal is the Yankeeflation factor. Strawberry hits 39 hrs for the Mets he's nothing, hits 20 something for the Yanks, he's a God. Win 1 game for the Yanks it's worth 3 in publicity and innane fan blather. Argo, Hughes. Yanks have over estimated his skills. Greatness comes unexpected. Pizza, Gooden. There is no way Hughes is going to remotely match Johan. So thanks Yanks for thinking your bowling alley queens are Miss America's. Have fun watching us win the 1st NY World Series in the 21st Century!

Go Mets!

i love these guys that are saying "YOU BETTER HOPE THE METS SIGN SANTANA"..........do u really think omar would make the trade if he didnt intend to sign him????.......c'mon now.........i know all stinkee fans are praying for that though...........you guys better go back to church and pray for someting else..............LIKE NOT GETTING KNOCKED OUT IN THE 1ST ROUND AGAIN!!

Kenc, exactly how would the culture have been had they not signed Martinez? And since when do u calculate a persons salary by their wins alone? Because I dont remember any pitcher, no matter how great they were, being 20-0 or 18-0 for an entire season. Its not as simple as paying for each win. Youre paying for everything that comes along with the player, including the effect that player has on the others around him. If youre trying to tell me that he had no effect on the players there or had any influence at all in Beltran even considering the Mets, youre nuts....and to compare him to Trachsel? whoa...in fact, who cares what who makes? As for 26champs, your rotation is a big question mark at best, with a lot of potential...We all saw that Wang is another version of Arod...all regular season and nothing in the post season...He's no ace... Petitte is decent but hes barely a number 2...then u got 3 rookies behind him...what are the chances that all 3 or even 2 become bona fide stars? So youre pinning your title hopes on 3 rookies, and 2 decent but not dominating pitchers? How is that better than Santana, Pedro, who's already proven, Maine, and Perez, both of whom already went thru the pressure in 06?

You are all missing the point here...Omar has NOTHING to do with signing Johan. He simply makes the trade. It's not his money. If it was, the deal would have been finalized already. The reason why this is taking so long is because the Wilpon's don't want to commit $150 - $160 million for 6 or 7 years...which I think is an insult to Santana. This is not Mike Hampton we're talking about. This is a guy who will basically guarantee 18 to 20 wins per season for the next 7 years. A guy like him doesn't come along very often so when he does....YOU GIVE HIM WHATEVER HE WANTS!!! 7 years...sure here ya go....$150 million...sure here ya go...your own private bathroom...sure here ya go. Do what it takes to get this guy on board. And by the way, 26 champs...even without Johan, we have a better staff. Maine and Ollie each had 15 wins in the 3 and 4 spots. Who was your 3 and 4? And how many wins did they have? Case closed.

.....or maybe the Yanks should just bring Roger back for $22 million to pitch a third of the season and make 6 starts...what a joke

Kenc is retarded. Before you criticize Pedro's $ per win, why don't you provide the $ per win ratios for Clemens last season.
as well as great Yankee signings like Pavano, Kevin Brown, and Jaret Wright.

Not to mention that without Pedro, we wouldnt have that other Martinez...Fernando was quoted as saying that thought he had higher offers, he chose the Mets, as Pedro is his favorite player. Pedro also drew his own crowds..During the 2005 season, attendance was significantly higher during his starts compared to other home games. Sure it would have been nice if he was able to make more starts, but to call him an unmitigated disaster is to not take into account the things he provides away from the mound, and as a result, absolutely baseless.

I think Santana gets 20+ wins, Pedro 15-17 wins, Maine 17-19 wins, Perez 16-18 wins, and the 5th spot with El' Duque/Pelfrey should get 15+ wins. With a little better luck and some help from the pen, Maine and Perez both could have had around 18 wins last year.

I think Pedro is the 2nd starter mainly because of his reputation. As far as Maine, I believe he will become the 2nd best pitcher this year on the Mets. That's if Omar doesn't screw up this deal with Santana.

How many of Pedro's games were blown by the bull pen in 2005? He should have won at least 18 - 20 games.

I will be happy if we see the 2005 Pedro without the 2005 bullpen...we will see more than 15 wins. Do the math!

It's official...he's a Met. Final deal is 7 years $150.75 million. I am so relieved!!

King of Kings you hit the nail on the head. The Mets would still have a better rotation than the Spankmees even if they didn't just sign Johan Santana - wow that felt great to say. I know Skanks fans are jealous that they lost out on Johan so they try to make themselves feel better by saying they'll be fine with 3 rookies in their staff. I got news for ya..you won't be fine. They're gonna struggle and by June you're all gonna be crying when Santana is 12-0. I've heard Skankee fans at work tell me Johan isn't that good, his best years are behind him...you name it. The guy is in the prime of his career. Yes, he struggled a bit last year but he still won 15 games and had an ERA of 3.33. That's not too shabby. People forget, once the Twins traded Castillo (to the Mets ironically) Johan began to lose faith in the direction of the team. Maybe he kind of held back so as to not injure himself because he knew that he would be next to be traded. He will be facing inferior NL lineups where he will see the opposing pitcher 2 maybe 3 times per game. His ERA will decrease by AT LEAST a full run per game. It wouldn't surprise me if he wins 25 games this year. He has 2 Cy Young's already and he's only 28. In the next 7 years with the Mets, one would have to think he will win at least 2 more.

15 wins will be good for Pedro.

Keeping him sharp for October might be a little dicey.

That will be the tightrope they walk this season.

santana 20
martinez 15 (if he throws 95 like they were saying then 18-20)
maine 18
perez 17
hernandez 12 (he could have more if he stays healthy)
pelfry 7 (the mets will give him some starts)

with Humber and Mulvey gone look for pelfry and sosa to get starts this year

the pen this year will be the best willy has had with the mets
CL wagner (be happy you dont have Lidge)
Heilman
Sanchez
Feliciano
Lugo
Smith
Schoenweis

Stokes Wise and Burgos can also make the team depending on how many position players Randolph wants to take.