Ken Davidoff's baseball insider

Ken, put this Blog on your kitchen door. Maybe its the concussion talking, but I agree with 99.99% of this blog!! The only thing I disagree with is that the Brewers are wasting their time. I dont think it will affect anything on how they prepare for the Mets or any future opponent. And if you argue that point, well then you can counter by saying that its an orginization that sticks up for its players and have their backs. I'm sure CC is appreciative of the efforts. And that obviously wont keep CC in Mil, but it can show potential free agents how much they care about their players. Though again, I think the dollars talk in the end.

But as you know, I've been complaining about the official scorers for months on this blog (and years off of it). Its time they get a new crew in. These people have proven they cannot do their jobs.

Richie, there's a difference between UNDERSTANDING someone's viewpoint and AGREEING with it, wouldn't you agree? I said I understood Bob T.'s point. I didn't say I agreed with it.

Ken,

How do you think Jon Niese is gonna fare against the Brew Crew today? From paying attention to his Triple-A starts, I'm thinking he'll do pretty well for himself, possibly surprising some people.

In regards to the "no no-no" discussion, knowing how good of an athlete CC is, I can't believe that was ruled a hit so quickly. I mean, did they not see the same pitcher make a double play *barehanded* in the same game? The first time I saw the video, I immediately thought it was an E1. MLB needs to change it, and should do so quickly.

Also, did you happen to ask John Maine about how long he's been dealing with the shoulder injury?

Compare: how often does a home-plate umpire blow a critical third-strike/four-ball pitch? One game every night, perhaps? How often does an umpiring crew screw up a home-run/foul-ball call? A few times per season? Now, how often does a pitcher get stiffed with a one-hitter because of a questionable call by the home team's official scorer? Uh, maybe once in my lifetime.

Yes, I would be pissed if this had happened to Dwight Gooden or Bret Saberhagen or Oliver Perez, in no small part because the Mets have still not thrown a no-no in nearly 47 years of playing baseball.

Still, Milwaukee got the "W", CC's market value did not suffer, and, let's face it, the game will be remembered more in our collective minds BECAUSE of the scorer's decision, not less!

Let's not go crazy over a relatively minor issue. Baseball has MUCH bigger fish to fry....

from murraychass.com - just for the facts....not for extending the argument...

"For the first time in history this year, scorers can be overruled. For about five years Major League Baseball had a committee that could recommend to a scorer that he should change a ruling, but the decision was his. The process was changed before this season. Now the committee can change a scoring decision by itself.

“A few years ago we put a review process in place,” Phyllis Merhige, a Major League Baseball senior vice president, said Monday. “Clubs could send in any egregious scorers’ calls or what they thought was a misreading of scoring rules. When we rewrote the scoring rules last year, we added a caveat that if the league felt the scorer had made the wrong call we had the power to change it.”

Merhige said that she has been “a little distressed that we get a lot of plays that aren’t egregious,” adding, “This isn’t about disagreeing with the scorer.”

She said she has received “a couple dozen” calls for review this year, and the committee has overturned two or three. The committee, she added, does not review all calls that are submitted.

Merhige declined to identify the members of the committee, but Bob Watson, vice president for on-field operations, acknowledged that he was a member. The others are also major league officials - Frank Robinson, Darryl Hamilton, Joe Garagiola Jr. and Mike Port.

“When everybody gets in, Phyllis will let us know what the protocol is,” Watson said. “I haven’t seen the play. I understand it was in question and I kind of figured we’d do something with it this week. We’ve reviewed 10 or 15 this year.”

The committee was expected to review the play Wednesday after receiving a DVD from the Brewers."

Sorry Ken, I shoulda read more closely. I understand Bob's POV as well.

JE, this is why Americans love baseball though. They can dissect and talk about stuff like this. Of course baseball has bigger fish to fry, but this is interesting and unique. LIke you said, its the only time you've ever seen it. So I think it should be discussed. Speaking of that, check out Bests blog. He has a great link.

http://3balls2strikes.blogspot.com/2008/08/scorers-nightmare.html

And though CC's money didn't suffer, I wonder if he coulda put no-hitter on his resume if that could add a few bucks. Probably not but you never know.
His interview after was filled with so much class, I actually gained a lot of respect for him.

And Doug, at first I didn't think they should change it. But I've changed my mind. Get the call right. Though I dont think they should carry CC around the field before his next start. He'll need to throw 27 K's because his fielders all would have a sore back.

Good stuff Bob.

I don't disagree regarding the discussion of the topic. Still, I am way more concerned about a future blown call in the playoffs, such as the blown call in the 1996 ALDS, than CC's individual stats.

I would even go so far as to agree with the official scorer's take. Come on, folks, how often is that play called an error, regardless of whether or not the pitcher is playing for the home team? Pitchers rarely receive errors for their fielding of a batted ball. Moreover, CC tried to use his bare hand to make the play. There aren't even many INFIELDERS who get charged with an "E" in those situations....

Doug, my apologies - I haven't had yet asked Maine your very relevant and important question. I hope to have a Niese item up later today.

No-hitter or one-hitter, I think Sabathia's utter domination recently just proves all pitchers should want to go to the NL. It's almost like AAA. Sabathia was always good, but in the NL he's practically a given.

He's going to have another huge workload this year. There's a ton of innings in that arm, and given his body, it has to give a team pause handing him a long-term deal.

I had really grown to dislike Torre by the end of his stay, so even though Girardi won't be making the playoffs I'm still happy with him. I'm happy with him because he's not Torre and he doesn't make (too many) asinine decisions. Torre had become incapable of handling a bullpen. It was truly painful to watch -- it sucked the joy out of the game. At least Girardi doesn't make me want to punch a wall every time he left the dugout to remove a pitcher. I also think managers are vastly overrated and it's much easier for them to have a negative effect rather than a positive one.

Ken, have you noticed a common thread in these pro-Torre columns -- namely, that all the writers were the ones who also championed him as the season ended last year? And do any of these guys and gals address the Dodgers' losing record SINCE Manny joined the team?

Even thought its 2 days after the fact, baseball should have acted right away on this. The Brewers want baseball to make a decision before Sabathia makes his next start. Sabathia would be credited with a no-hitter if baseball changes the call. Ken, Bob, if this happens, isn't this the cheapest way to get a no-hitter?
I know people around baseball think Sabathia is going to play on the West coast because he's from Northern California. But if the Yanks offer the most money, that going to be hard for Sabathia to pass up.

How much did Torre's rep take a hit after the 2004 collapse? It's amazing how much praise he gets even with the worst collapse in baseball history on his resume. Not only did his team choke, but he put them in a position where they basically couldn't win game seven: he started Kevin Brown, who couldn't get out of the first inning in his previous two starts against the Sox. Starting Brown with the season on the line was maybe the dumbest decision a baseball manager ever made. It's amazing that people still think highly of Joe Torre.

Ken -

Torre makes no difference to this year's team.

Joe T is no match for injuries and some of Cashman's pipedreams about winning with homegrown talent.

THANK YOU JE....

"Let's not go crazy over a relatively minor issue."

Going into the record books after pitching a one hitter uses just as much ink and takes up the same amount of space as going in there after pitching a no-hitter.

Now excuse me while I head out in search of an oxygen tank until all these hurricanes blow through.

Bailey, who would you have started? I think Vazquez was just as bad as Brown if I remember correctly. I dont know who was available so its not a rhetorical question. Is there someone on 3 days rest they could have started?

As for me, I was rooting hard for the Sox. And I remember saying, "YOU HAVE TO BENCH DAMON!!!" I think I may have been wrong on that.

baileywalk, the rainout before Game 3 of the 2004 ALCS came back to haunt the Yanks because it mend that there were no days off between Games 3-7. Torre had no other choice but to start Brown because his other choice would have been Vazquez, who couldn't get out of his own way the 2nd half of the season. Of course if Rivera had gotten the final 3 outs in Game 4, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And with Torre having 4 world championships in the bank at that point, Torre gets the benefit of the doubt. And by the way, Bobby Cox is highly thought of in baseball, yet he has only 1 world championship in 5 trips to the World Series and 0-2 against Torre in the Fall Classic.

By the way, how crazy is this:

Manny Ramirez (LAD): .415/508/.736, 1.244 OPS, 217 OPS+.

So how come Joe Torre's team remains under .500?!?

Just curious!

Hey Ken.

Heard that Beltran is taking 'a few days off.' Do you think with the Mets' slim lead, he should 'suck it up' and play? C'mon, the guy sits when his nose runs.
~H

Of course Torre had nothing to do with the August records. It was his good fortune to have a team of very high paid prideful professionals (many of whom were still in their prime) who played to win. Although the Yankees still have many highly paid prideful professionals who play to win, they are no longer necessarily in their primes (see Giambi, Damon, Matsui, Pettitte, Rivera, Posada, Jeter) and can't get the job done this year. Plus theu have all the injuries, and unlike last year when ARod was playing like his entire career depended on it and carried the team, he hasn't done jack this year except possibly set a major league record for grounding into the most DPs in one month (21 in August). A well-spent $30+ million dollars and almost predictable based on how he played in 2006.
As JE mentioned above, Torre can't get anything done with the Dodgers, just as he got little done in his managerial past with the Mets, braves and Cardinals. The only difference I see in Torre now as compared with Torre on the Yankees is he watches the games from the top step of the dugout instead of sitting on the bench with his cap pulled down over his eyes.

Sandy, all I have to say in response is this: LOL!

Ditto Sandy....I'd say you have outsnarked me with that last paragraph.

What Joe Torre has done better than any coach/manager in the history of todays sports (1990's and beyond) is deal with the modern athlete. They won four World Series in five years and you didn't hear a peep out of their superstars. Phil Jackson had it very rough with the Bulls trying to appease Jordan's ego and deal with his supporting cast, but Torre made sure all of his players egos were in check.

Of course after the 2001 season, it became harder. Giambi bringing in his entourage, Sheffield being Sheffield and the two biggest grumps in baseball, K. Brown and R. Johnson. But I bet had Bobby V. been the manager of the 96-2001 Yanks, things would have fallen apart somewhere. So thats Torre's greatness. In my opinion.

Ken I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the once in a lifetime event that happened yesterday: Two players hit for the cycle on the same day in different games. The first time it has happened in 88 years.
Richie when Bobby V has to have the biggest ego in the clubhouse, things are bound to fall apart. Without the drunkenness he's sort of like the Billy Martin of the modern era.

Brown made two recent starts against the Sox before game seven. A regular-season game on September 26th. And game three of the ALCS on October 16th.

Line from the first game: 0.2 IP, 6 hits, 4 ER.
Line from the second game: 2 IP, 5 hits, 4 R.

THIS is the guy you put your life on the line with? Those were two recent games and they killed him. Plus everyone knows Brown could barely walk. As the story (legend?) goes, Torre looked Brown in the eyes and asked if he could pitch and Brown said yes, even though it was obvious that Brown was completely cooked. I personally believe that it was 100 percent chicken-sh*t for Torre to leave that decision up to Brown. You know that a guy with such maniacal macho pride like him would never say no.

Javy wasn't pretty in game three, but he was better than Brown: 4.1 IP, 4 ER, 4 Ks. He tired in his last inning of work and gave up a two-run home run to Varitek.

Game seven was also a disaster. He let Brown pitch long enough to hang himself, then brings in Javy with the bases loaded and one out and... well, he grooves a pitch right over the plate and just like that the Yankees were the biggest chokers in sports history and their trip to the WS was over. I think Torre was at his worst in this series and then later in the '06 ALDS, where his sheer panic sank his team.

The official scorer got it right. That is not an ordinary play. it requires great talent, effort and perfect execution for a lefty to come off the mound, bare hand then pivot for the throw, more so when you figure in CC's size. Can he make that play? Sure, and he will. But that does not make it an E when he fails to barehand a spinning ball cleanly. If he had gotten the error and then pitched a 3 hitter his team would have been bitching about the E. It is a one hitter, if Selig rewrites history he is an even bigger joke than currently believed. And his manager claiming he will make that play 99 times out a 100 just means he cannot be taken seriously. Not a bloody chance he makes the play in a game for the out 9 times out of 10.

I completely agree with Howard. Beltran is more delicate than my 85 year old grandmother. The only difference is that she doesn't make millions.

JE, I agree with you - way too much Torre love going on at the moment. I'm not a Torre-hater, either, though. I'm in the middle.

baileywalk, re: the '04 ALCS, I think the one thing they could've done was, after the rainout that occurred the night of Game 3 - setting up the five games in a row, as Dennis mentioned - they could've started Mussina in Game 4, on his normal four days' rest, and El Duque in Game 5, rather than keeping it in order as Duque-Mussina. Then Mussina would've had two days' rest for Game 7, rather than one, so it would've been like a throw day for Mussina. Maybe Mussina could've started and gone a couple of innings? Re: Vazquez, don't forget that Javy was really terrible for the second half of the season, and there was widespread speculation that he was injured.

Howard, what can I tell you on Beltran? The guy just gave you a dramatic victory on Frl. night, so I wouldn't be too hard on him.

Craig, good to see you! Been a while, hasn't it?

Indeed it has, I've been swamped with work. This was the lost summer, one trip to the beach with the kids, otherwise all work and no play.

Craig, the first mistake CC made was trying to barehand it. As evidenced by the replay, he had plenty of time to put it in his glove (which should be easy considering its going so slow) set, and throw to first. He has a good arm obviously so I would say a decent fielder would make that play 7 or 8 out of 10 times. And a good fielder would make it 9 out of 10. That to me means its an error.

Selig is a Brewer at heart so it will be interesting to see if he tries to push it for the no-no.

As much as it would be a little cheap bc he didn't go through the presssure that he would normally, many believe he never gave up a hit. And if the officials that review this really believe its not a hit, then it should be ruled an error.

You are crazy if you think we'd be better. In all probability, we would most likely be worse. Girardi's in game managing (while with flaws) is SO much better than Torre. Example #1- the bullpen and bullpen management. For that alone, I can take 100 Girardi's over Torre.