Earlier this month, dog droppings were collected in an area in Glendale, Queens, where Vivi's scent, however faint, was detected by scent dogs. A sample was mailed to the American Kennel Club's DNA lab, which has DNA from Vivi's dam and sire on file.
Rick Patterson, fiance of Vivi's co-owner Jil Walton, says that the lab's preliminary findings suggest that the droppings are not Vivi's. Follow-up tests are being performed to definitively confirm that assessment.
Vivi has not been sighted since August 7, in the vicinity of Forest Park in Glendale.
Comments (205)
Diane from SI found this
Taken from this website: http://www.willametteweek.com/html/newsbuzz082797.html
LOST and FOUND
Harry Oakes Jr., one of Oregon's best-known search and rescue experts, has been tossed out as CEO of the organization he founded: Mountain Wilderness Search and Rescue.
Why did the board of directors oust the dog handler who claims to have run thousands of searches, 450 rescues and 1,230 safety programs?
It turns out some people think Oakes isn't all he claims to be. In several counties, the sheriff's deputies in charge of search and rescue missions have repeatedly barred him from the scene, saying he's a nuisance. Many critics say he exaggerates his successes.
"I've always had a problem with the way he counts a find," says Carl Martin, board president. "He's very liberal with his claims of having a find."
The final straw, however, seems to be a state probe of the organization's finances. Jan Margosian, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Justice, says her office is still investigating the financial relationship between Oakes, Mountain Wilderness Search and Rescue and another Oakes organization called Help Us Find You Inc.
Margosian wouldn't comment on the investigation, but Martin says his organization is looking into whether Oakes profited from the nonprofit MWSR.
Oakes says the real problem isn't him--it's the rest of the search and rescue community members, who are jealous of his expertise. "There are a lot of ugly politics in search and rescue," he says, "a lot of jealousy and a lot of hatred. This is just their way of trying to shut Harry Oakes down."
But the man who has traveled to Armenia, San Francisco and the Philippines to find earthquake victims, the man who has tracked lost dogs, cats, snakes, llamas, turtles, horses and pygmy goats, won't let that happen. Earlier this month Oakes formed a new for-profit organization, International Canine Search and Rescue Services and Consulting Firm. --MO
>
>International K-9 Search and Rescue Services.
>P.O. Box# 1472 Longview, Washington 98632 USA.
>Office (360) 414-8093 Cellular (503) 705-0258.
>Web: www.k9sardog.com
>INTEGRITY YOU CAN TRUST - SERVICE YOU CAN COUNT ON.
>09-19-06
>To whom it may concern; On 09-12-06, the professional K-9 SAR teams for
>missing persons and pets, I.K.9.S.A.R.S., were asked to enter the private
>search for Vivi to determine what had happened to Vivi.
>
>As the author of Forensic Scent Evidence. The book which teaches District
>Attorneys, Judges, and Police officers, how scent works and how to use it
>as evidence to prove or disprove specific details of a missing person or
>pet, my expertise has been used around the world. From the Oklahoma City
>Bombing, the Philippine Earthquake, and many other major disasters and
>thousands of other cases.
>
>Each case is documented as to case #, agency or private request, date and
>time involved, location, search teams involved and findings.
>
>With 10 years as a law enforcement officer, 25 years combined in the
>medical field, and combined with 34 years of search and rescue, my
>findings are credible.
>
>Upon being asked to enter the private search to determine what happened to
>Vivi, I investigated many factors. The last seen location, the breed, age,
>sex, and circumstances of the dog missing.
>The location, health, social skills. Statements made over emails, faxes,
>public statements of volunteers and other persons involved in the search
>for Vivi. All were investigated, and a missing dog profile was presented.
>
>Before we responded, I made it very clear that we had less then a 10%
>chance of finding Vivi.
>
>First I want to thank all of the volunteers for their dedication to their
>search efforts, time, and their own money spent to help find Vivi.
>
>Fact: It’s a very common factor in dealing with “Eye Witnesses” that only
>5% of the sightings are accurate on an average. This has been verified by
>the lack of credible sightings and supported by the lack of factual
>evidence, photographs taken by game cameras, security cameras, DNA of
>feces in the area, etc.
>
>Fact: Vivi hasn’t been sighted in over a month.
>
>Fact: If Vivi was dead, there are numerous authorities and concerned
>citizens in the area who would have documented the finding.
>
>Fact: With the publicity done by Vivi’s owners, the news, radio, TV, and
>signs posted, if Vivi was running around in the area with or without
>puppies, someone would have reported this to the Vivi hotline.
>
>When a person calls the hot line and states, ”I have Vivi”. If they don’t
>leave their name and telephone #, we generally discount this statement.
>
>When a person makes a second call (which was tape recorded), this has to
>be looked at further by law enforcement. This is being done.
>
>
>SAR Dog Valorie was brought to a various possible sighting areas. She
>validated 5 old trails and absolutely no new scent trails or death scent
>of Vivi.
>
>Other facts were located by SAR Dog Valorie that I can’t go into due to
>the sensitive nature of the evidence and the ongoing investigation.
>
>Based on all of the factors, the missing dog profile, lack of credible
>sightings, lack of evidence, and some findings we made while doing our
>search, it’s my determination that Vivi has been picked up by person(s)
>and is being taken care of by someone.
>
>This is a probability factor of 94%. There is a probability factor of 4%
>that Vivi is deceased and we’ve missed the fi,ndings. There is less then a
>1% chance that we’re completely wrong. (based on the search dogs search
>logs).
>
>We are asking for the dog owners to release a media statement about Vivi
>being stolen.
>This may cause the suspect(s) involved to either turn Vivi over to the
>authorities for fear of prosecution, the suspect(s) may turn Vivi loose so
>as not to get caught with stolen property.
>
>The suspects may try to claim they “Just found Vivi and try to obtain the
>reward money.
>Or they may just keep her.
>
>Our search, though it didn’t bring Vivi back, did bring forth factual
>evidence to the area where Vivi had been picked up which is credible for
>the court of law.
>
>
>IK9SARS was paid for this search effort.
>
>>Respectfully
>
>Mr. Oakes
>I.K.9.S.A.R.S.
>
>
>
>
What a blowbag!!
Lisa E.
Just out of curiosity, was this "10% chance of finding Vivi" statistic revealed to those who donated to this operation??
Lisa E.
no
Would somebody please e-mail me and let me know the total amount you paid for this service. It's really important that I have the exact number. I'll explain later.
He contradicted himself!! First he says that she is stolen and he can't release any information because of the on-going investigation, then in the very next paragraph he determines that Vivi has been picked up by someone and is being taken care of!!!
This guy is unbelievable. The more I read it, the more outrageous it becomes!!! This guy definately doesn't have his facts straight.
The "facts" that he based his findings on are merely possibilities and definately NOT facts. It is not a FACT that authorities, a sanitation worker or other person would have identified Vivi had she been killed. They are not required to do so and they very rarely do. Many times remains are not too pleasant to deal with, so they are eliminated as quickly as possible. As far as citizens go, when was the last time you went up to a carcass on the parkway and checked for a collar with tags??
As far as the "fact" of someone reporting seeing Vivi due to the amount of publicity, this is also not a fact. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people out there who have no idea who Vivi is, despite all of the flyers and advertising. I know this for a FACT!! You have language barriers, cultural barriers, etc... Plus, you have people who just don't give a crap. This is New York. We've definately got our good points, but believe me when I say we definately have our bad points!!! There are a lot of strays running around the streets of Queens. Unfortunately, most just trot on by. If anything people are usually frightened of getting bit. I know I am. I would never go up to a stray dog unless it came over to me with a wagging tail. Even then, I would take plenty of time to get to know it before I reached down to check a collar. I love animals, but I also have common sense.
So, basically two out of three of his determining "facts" are not factual, therefore can not be considered to be determining factors in reaching his final conclusion.
I think this guy did his math wrong. I think there is a 99% chance that he is wrong and a 1% chance that he is right. I also noted quite a few typos, which is a major pet peeve of mine whenever something is business related!!
Lisa E.
the 10% got me too. that's far from what he tole ME when i emailed him 2 months ago....
and i was stupid. i got mad and responded that this was a joke back to teri. cannot kill the messenger - she didn't do the searching so we cannot be mad at her. there are other issues aside from this report that i am upset about but no one in their right mind would expect this as the final conclusion. i apologized for my remarks on the report to her. i'm not like that i don't know what set me off and respond. bad, bad, bad..... :(
I am going to add my little comment here..
This man seems to forget that this dog is very feral after being out for 7 months. My feeling is that she will hunker down not be seen. which makes it harder to have sightening.
Vivi, to me at this point is now afraid of people & will not want to be seen..
No one is 1% of anything, it does not happen in any equation..
There is 1% missing. Can anyone tell me what that is? Oh I know what it is...1% must mean him being nuts.
Are police reports public record in NY... ?
Diane, I sent you an email
"Other facts were located by SAR Dog Valorie that I can’t go into due to the sensitive nature of the evidence and the ongoing investigation"
What the h*** does this mean?
I don't usually post, but I'm so angry that this guy took us big time hook, line and sinker.
Now I'm off to train my two cats to be SAR cats just like Valorie so I can make big bucks for doing nothing.
Barbara P
Concerning the threat made to Diane on the other post that is active:
Terri, but you TOOK peoples money for a purpose and made published promises and now won't give them what you committed to them that you would...several times. Hmmmmm. And looks like lies and deceit on your part have taken place if you'd sit in their chair for a moment. What exactly would you think or say or speculate under the same circumstances? Speculation could stop immediately on the blog if you had lived up to the promises you made here. You apparently have no idea how many watch this blog for information only to be lead on about the situation now going on days......
"Now I'm off to train my two cats to be SAR cats just like Valorie so I can make big bucks for doing nothing."
No no no - You don't even have to bother to train your cats. If you look at Harry's website, you'll notice that his dog, Valorie, is "internationally certified" by none other than Harry's own organization, meaning that he wasn't accountable to anyone before bestowing the certification on her. Why should your cats be subject to any higher standard? I say you hide catnip under a sofa, and if they can find it, you print out some nice SAR certificates for them to hang in their cat condo.
Enough is enough. You wanted Harry, you got Harry. You wanted a report, you got a report. You want a breakdown of the funds, once the final invoice has been received, you will get a breakdown of the funds.
The cutting words about Harry and Terri are too much. Quit judging. Quit name calling. Quit making assumptions. Just quit the sh*t. You know I love you guys. We've been through a heck of a lot but what is being posted on the blog is simply "evil". It's like a stinkin' pool of sharks...one strike, there's blood, then the whole bunch attack. As they both stated, this is not over UNTIL IT IS OVER. So focus on something positive, get back to doing what we do best, helping helpless animals okay?
I have a cat that plays dead. Does not mean she can pick up a dead scent. Yeah!!!!! I am going to quit my day job tomorrow and hang out my shingle.
Amen Lois! Let's follow her good advice.
I am a very even-tempered person that would ordinarily agree with Lois' last post.
No offense Lois, but I think these gals have an absolute right to be horrified and upset by what has taken place.
It surprises me that you aren't.
Enough is enough is true. I agree with you about you all wanting Oakes and getting Oakes.
But there is one thing that can and will be done, not here and certainly not involving anyone on this blog.
Oakes will be made an open book to the dog world.
I am sure he will be prepared, he has been there in the past. I doubt he will be getting very many more $5,000 or more jobs in the future.
The truth and proof is all we need.
One last comment, why do all the donators for Vivi have to wait for a "final accounting" before you will tell them the amount, who the check was made out to and how his airline ticket was purchased?
What difference does it make if all is on the up and up?
On another topic for a second - Denise just posted the new flyer for anybody who wishes to copy it. It's in PDF format.
All seems a bit too quiet here. I hope everyone is OK and getting ready for a better day!
Hello everyone, I've been following the blog alittle
checking in daily just to see if there is a big "VIVI Found!" notice. I wanted to share my kitten rescue story with you all.
I noticed a little black cat running the streets around our hardware store a couple weeks ago.
It couldn't be more than four months old. I told all the guys at work to offer food and capture her if they could, before she gets hit by a car. She must have read my mind, my nephew was in the little corner grocery store and the door opened and the little cat came running in under someones feet, he said she was looking at the shelves very nervous like she wanted to grab something and make a run for it. He's about seven feet tall, he bent down to see if she was friendly and she practically jumped in his arms. He carried her up to the store and said , "Is this the mangy runt you wanted" we fed her right away, she was starving! I called the vet while she was eating and told them the situation. (they know me, I have many animals) They said bring her right in. Well, there are lots of details, now she's been dewormed and flea treated (bad cases)and spayed, I named her Velvet.
She has the sweetest disposition. Last week she was laying in her little bed on the counter at work, a long time customer and friend came in and started petting her, she got tears in her eyes and said she reminded her of her cat she had fifteen years, who died back in January. She was talking to Velvet and Velvet liked her too. So I decided to part with this precious angel. Her new mommy is away on a business trip and will take her next week, I wanted to keep her til she finishes her medications. I hope I'll be able to part with her. I know it's the right thing to do. but it's so hard.
Take care everyone...
Great rescue story Lillie, thanks for sharing.
Keeping the faith for Vivi in TX
Lois, you said it best and I agree with you! We all need to take a breather, lets sit back and wait and see what happens, if there is an "on going investigation" then we need to let it go on, maybe we don't need to know all the details at the moment and arent supposed to know for a reason. I donated and I DO NOT WANT MY MONEY BACK, that is why it is a donation. I wanted Harry, and I got Harry, NOt what I expected but things happen for a reason, it might seem bad at the moment, but we don't know the outcome yet,Sometimes things have to get really bad in order to get BETTER, we need to give it some time.
So lets stop throwing the poop around! Lets give the "on going" investigation time to evolve when it is time for us to know we will. All this talk about Fraud and lawsuites is just crazy!!! I am leaving it in Gods hands! Rosa
linda nh...I can't give you the numbers because I have not yet received them yet! I swear!
linda nh...I don't understand why you are surprised that I am not upset? I AM UPSET. No, actually, let me rephrase that...I am disappointed.
I'm disappointed that there was no "miracle" too. I think that everyone was hoping and praying that this might be "it". I'm also disappointed in the reaction of the blog. But that's a mute point.
Anyway, let me ask you this. How are Harry's results any different than those of the other people that we have hired? Did Karin, Laura or Sam write up reports and provide them to the people that helped pay for THEIR visits? If so, then somehow, the ones that were forwarded to me were lost. Their searches didn't return Vivi either. Didn't they also comment that Vivi may have been taken in by someone? Is it because Harry phrased it as she was "stolen" versus "taken in"?
I just don't understand how his visit and what he discovered was so different from previous ones.
Just want everyone to know that I just came back a little while ago with Gail and her Mom doing a little mini search in an area in Rego Park off of Queens Blvd. I jumped out of the car to run into a local grocery store to give them a hand out because a dumpster filled with garbage (tonight they pick up garbage)was right next door and when I handed them the paper they said "Oh we saw this already, someone sent us some in the mail". Just wanted to let you all know that all the hard work you have done with your mailings, faxings, etc. is doing some good because this lady knew about Vivi already. Thank you...
Lois, the only difference I can see in the other searchers is that their dogs were walked on and off a lead ALL THRU parks and cemeteries not just the perimeter, and went where ever the searchers asked them to go. We were allowed to be there and knew ahead of time when it would take place, of couse, unless our presence was required we did not interfer. But, we had the option of being there if we wanted to. OUR OPINIONS WERE ASKED AND VALUED. That to me seems like the only difference.
HEY EVERYONE! CHECK OUT GAILS VIVI SITE!!
NEW INFORMATION!!
http://meshirer.net/vivi/crossings-sept-2006/Crossings-sept-2006.html
OUR GIRL IS BACK!! STOLEN? I THINK NOT!!
Marty and Marnie have mailed hundreds and more are on the way to that area, even before this. I told Marty the guy may have seen one she mailed.
Was it a reliable sighting? A footsoldier?
This is great news. I hope everyone doesn't bombard the area and drive her off.
If someone could just see her that is absolutely positive it is Vivi!
And someone who would recognize a bitch that has recently had puppies or not.
For now, just to know she is alive is good.
I wish Karen could go to that spot, just to be positive it really was/is Vivi.
I will gladly contribute to get a tracker and some dogs in to search this area Vivi was just spotted in. This would now be a fresh scent.
HOOOORAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY! GO TEAMVIVI FOOT SOLDIERS! Thank you Gail for your wonderful site and the quick update with loads of great information!
FROM OUR FRIEND VALERIE - GOOD NEWS!!!!!!
Hello Everyone,
Most of you are aware of my recent scare with a new lump development on Dante's right front shoulder. For those of you who are not, I found the lump the evening after sending everyone my Santa Cruz trip pictures. I took him to the vet the next day and my vet aspirated the lump and sent the slide to the lab for analysis.
Last night, I got GREAT NEWS. The lump is NOT MCT. It is a cyst of some form which is not dangerous to him. What a relief !!!!!!!!!
Everyone's prayers were heard and God blessed Dante to be free of cancer once again. Thank you everyone for all of your continued support and prayers. I can't tell you how much it truly means to me. I am so lucky to have met all of you.
I wish everyone a GREAT weekend and pray for a sighting of Vivi this weekend.
Needle nose kisses to all from my boys.
Valerie, Dante, Trotter & Zipper
Such wonderful news for Dante and Valerie!! I would love to see a picture of Valerie and her pups. Does any one have them?
Today is such a happy day! Bring it on!!
" As the Vivi World Turns" Never a dull moment
Prayers that this really is our girl, come on home
it's getting cold
mila: i will send you some. OMG - they are gorgeous boys!!!!!
and... as for the sighting -
rosa called at 6:15 last night. call came in at 6:00. "you dog is at the mall and she running around all over there." rosa couldn't understand well so she asked me to call him back. unfortunately, it was a pay phone and i could not reach him. hoever, he sis ask how much the reward was and told her to donate the money to st. jude. i was hoping to get on here last night like a lunatic and tell you it was confirmed. not from him, it wasn't. however, i stayed and was trying to figure out how to get him back and also trying to figure where she may be headed - possibly back to flushing meadow park? don't know.... rosa, tina, and gail took off to the site. what they were told, i have no idea. BUT PEOPLE ARE CALLING!!!!! that's a good thing :)
WONDERFUL news about the Vivi sighting! I hope and pray like everyone else that this will have some very positive results!!! GO FOOT SOLDIERS!!!
RIGHT ON, PAM :)
i am praying so hard that it was indeed our little scum :)
beth: thanks so much for lending a hand with Duke!!!!!! he is such a ham - i adore him!!!!!!
kathy (CO): to answer your question - ALOT, ALOT, ALOT is needed!!!!! thousands, my love. but that's not expected of anyone here so please don't get the wrong idea about donating!!!! denise's bills include shelter fees, atty fees, and or course the jackass Mr. Rogers next dorr's settlement. we'll get there. i'll sell myself on the corner if i have to - i'm sure men adore CHINESE women. he!!!!
marnie: i knew i could count on you!!! you're my calif. sunshine, baby doll :)
again, hanks to all of you we are moving in the right direction!!! i knoew denise is busy i am speaking on her behalf. she went for a Duke visit yesterday for 90 mins. they had a camp out - sleeping bag, conversaton, and a new bone :) does it get better than that?????
WE WILL GET HIM OUT - I KNOW WE CAN DO IT!!!!!
Vivi was sighted? I don't mean to sound like a Debbie Downer but it sounds a little bit too coincidental for me.
If anyone wants to help fax or mail flyers let Karen or myself know. I will be more than happy to get addresses and email them to you. The new flyers have just been posted to download. We need all the help we can get. Marnie and I sent to grocery stores so when Kathy of Bayside said when she went into that grocery and the lady said she already had one make me feel good. All the hard work will payoff and will get ViVi home.
That is the thing about randomness, sometimes it seems like there is a meaning to it when there is not. I have asked lots of questions and it sure sounds like her MO and the MO of a legitimate caller. But yes you always must remain skeptical. This one is not like, say the one who got her pregnant from a shelter and isn't giving her back or the obvious plays for a reward, the MO's for prank callers.
marty!!! applause applause to all of you!!!! you guys emailing, faxing and mailing are really doing a bang up job!!!! thank you on behalf of the weenie gang!!!
lois B: sounded like a decent one. cannot be positive since i did not speak with him personally. i tried but to no avail. the important thing is people are still aware of her and are calling. it'll be ok - you took a beating the last few days - don't let that get you down EVER!!! you are one of the founding members of this fun little place and we all adore you!!!
xoxoxoxoxo
maybe the sighting is God trying to make us smile :)
who knows but we will find out, won't we????
Your right about that Darlene. He's always there when we're down.
right on, marty!!!!! agree completely :)
HELLO AGAIN - i am getting asked how to use paypal for Duke. piece of cake:
on the bottom it states click here if you do not have an account. just click and it will ask your name, address, etc. to verify the credit card you are using. that's it :) it's a very very secure site. they watch everything!!!!!
otherwise, mailing is just fine. Duke is very busy trying to reconcile his new account and balance his books :) it's growing, my darlings - THANK YOU!!!!!
Just got this in my email from the ASPCA.
Late last month, ASPCA Humane Law Enforcement officers arrested a 20-year-old Bronx resident for beating a 14-pound bichon frise named Bebe—which prompted a Queens judge to issue the first-ever order of protection in New York for a pet.
kay
that story ran in newsday around here. Its great isnt it?
I wonder if I could get something like that against my neighbor keeping him from making anymore false claims on my dog???
It is great. I am trying to sell my house so I can retire. I will be moving to a county that does not have an animal shelter or control officer. I think after all I have learned here i may get involved there to help with the animals.
DENISE: ask you atty. i am sure there is a type of restraining order available to your and your family to keep Jackass Mr. Rogers away :)
kay: move to NY - would love to have you!!!!
one thing I have learned Kay..There are not enough people to help the animals of the world. They can always use one more.
Thanks Darlene, but I would probably freeze during the winter. I'm used to Texas winters where all i have to wear is a sweater.
HELLO AGAIN - REGARDING DUKE:
FYI: paypal takes 1% of all donations as a fee. maybe we should all just mail the donations to the P.O. Box. every penny counts now!!!!!
thanks again, my friends :)
darlene,
I am really interested in the GPS chipping you mentioned? wouldnt that help some how? also where would I go for that?
denise: some vets do carry the GPS. your best bet is to go on the internet ( i will help) and find a local one who carries those. call for a consultation and find out if it will suit you. that way, Duke will be "followed" wherever there may be a question. let's check it out, shall we????
Because Denise is settling with her wonderful neighbor, will that prevent him from filing any more charges against her and Duke in the future or is it possible for him to wait a few months and then find something else to complain about and put Duke back in doggy jail?
Kathy,
I honestly dont know..my lawyer is telling me that maybe I should place duke with someone else so it doesnt happen again
that sucks Denise - what good does it do to place him with someone else??? I suppose moving isn't an option. Is this neighbor old or anything - perhaps we could pray that he moves to a nursing home (just kidding - not wishing any bad luck on anyone)
didn't finish my thought - what good does it do to place him with someone else - he would still not be with you and your family.
denise: there are rules and regs set as far as harrassment goes. Jack__ Mr. Rogers cannot legally keep bothering you and think he can hit the jackpot each time. no way. not the way the law works. my bro-in-law in an atty. i shall check with him :)
perhaps beth can help re. this issue????
and kathy (CO) - i will take care os that wishing on Mr Rogers - JINX, HEX,.....
i shall make a voo-doo dolland poke every important area each day :)
Those are my feelings exactly..not to mention paying everybody off (approx 20K) then to give him away..but they wouldnt be putting him to sleep.
Its not an easy spot. Ideally I would like to vidicate my dog..get him home and then do what ever it takes to make sure it never happens to him again ie GPS chipping..fencing the front yard, putting stockade fence around my chain link fence. Make it fort knox around here.
you can do it denise. time is on your side now. one step at a time, ok? just get him out and with the help of the "cavalry" here, we can fix just about anything....
maybe if duke comes out, vivi will too :)
someone even suggested putting up cameras..not sure to put them tho?
I like the fence idea - I have 6 ft privacy fence around my back yard - hate snoopy people - perhaps with the settlement you can get him to sign something that says he will not harrass you regarding Duke or any other animal or child in your possession - something like that. Kinda like when you sign a settlement check that says you waive all rights to pursue further judgment. Maybe something like that could be part of the settlement.
EXACTLY, KATHY (CO) BINGO. should be part of the settlement.....
and i also have a fortress as i hate most people. i wanted to dig a moat but John said no. kill joy....
cameras are good and inexpensive, denise. some are motion triggered and record right onto your computer. a friend of mine has them. work well. :)
thats a good idea Kathy..will tell the atty
Denise - I believe there should be something in writng stating that he waives all rights to pursue any future claims in this matter because he is settling on this case now.
I can just picture this d$ck taking the money and then waiting to find something else to complain about - glad I have nice neighbors KNOCK ON WOOD
Darlene - I agree - a nice moat with crocodiles in it!!!
can you put cameras up without any legal ramifications? just checking
and barracudas - i just adore them. they remove all of those pesky people you don't want around. and there's nothing to clean up :) hee....
in queens you can :)
denise should check with county law but i am sure it's perfectly ok if put inside your property line.
they are tiny little things - no one would even know they are there.
Add a few pirahanas (sp) in the moat, too. They seem to survive in all kinds of weather!
I like the 6 foot fence idea. You could even put sometime of monitor or alarm that would go off if someone opened the gate with a camera. We all have 6-8' wooden fences here.
Keeping the faith for VIVI and all here in Texas
Hah Pam there were articles in the newsday around here that there were pirahnas living in lake ronkonkoma..I believe the found maybe 3 of em
Praying it was her too. It would be surprising to me after being out of site for so long she would be in such a busy place. Darlene, if the sighting was of her running around the mall... i would think a lot of other people would of seen her too? Maybe the shop keepers could be interviewed to see if any heard about a dog running around there last night?
susan: kathy and gail went last night. she may have run around the front and then zoom - out to the back of the buildings.... kathy didn't say if anyone else saw anything. i wish they did!!!!
and yhes, pirahna's too :) yum yum!!!!