Animal House

I actually saw a photo online of Vivi's crate AFTER her escape. It looked, frankly,to ME as though the locking pins had flexed outward from the cage at about a 10 to 15 degree angle, in a position such that it would be impossible for them to lock in place.

I don't quite understand, I am just very visual I mean. What are your conclusions then?

To me it looked like it had either been tampered with or bent in some way. There is NO way Jil would have put her in there with it looking like that. You are right. It would not have locked.

Karen, go to Feb. Archives and scroll down to New Search Party for Saturday. You can see a picture of it there.

Lesson to be learned here is that if you MUST fly a pet in cargo, please be certain that you don't bet your pet's life on one latch. Secure with additional duct tape or cable ties that can be cut in an emergency which would leave no doubt whether the case had been deliberately or accidentally opened.

Always best to take an extra step and be safe rather than sorry...

Irene Wilson

I read somewhere that someone from Delta opened her crate to give her water. If that is the case, which I doubt that it is, why on earth did they feel that she needed water after just being placed in her crate on a cold day in February. Knowing that she liked her crate and was used to traveling, I doubt that she was panting or looking stressed.

wouldn't you think that airport cargo handling areas would all have security cameras in them these days....if there were, I wonder if those tapes can be obtained and examined to find out exactly what happened.

Cargo is not as secure an area as you would think. I shipped a puppy to someone via Delta in Boston about 6 months after 9/11. There was absolutely no security. I walked all over the cargo building and no one ever questioned me. While waiting to load the puppy, I parked in several different areas around the cargo buildings so that I could walk the puppy and no one stopped or anything.

Liz:
I asked that same question at least 6 times from the first week and never got an answer. Had asked the searchers if they noticed any cameras, but don't have an answer.

I can't imagine a cargo loading area in NYC with all the potential terrorist threats not having surveillance cameras running 24/7...if not, I sure feel less secure this morning!

Irene Wilson

I know what you mean, and since the terrorists flew out of Boston, you would think security would be pretty tight there too.

I have flown many miles with a pussycat under my seat in a carrier (no problem whatsoever), but I would never put a pet in cargo (felt that way before Vivi due to other pets being lost and more so now). If I could not drive to my destination with my pet, I would board the pet with a trusted Vet (which I have done).

I think Westminster should consider having 3 annual shows...one on the West Coast, one in the Midwest and one in NYC. That would allow people to least have the possibility of driving with their dogs rather than putting them in harm's way on these airlines that truly don't give a damn! I realize some of the dogs are flown from foreign countries to that show as well and have no answer for that...I just know that no pet of mine will EVER be given over to ANY airline...they are under my seat or we drive!
Irene Wilson

Irene..I'm worse than you. I just plain won't leave my girl overnight..period. I have my groomer come twice a day (she is my best friends daughter) to let her out and feed her if we go to the fairs or NYC for the day. She never goes more than 5 hrs without going out. When we travel it must be somewhere she can go with us and stay with us at all times or we don't go. I have done this for 13 yrs now and it doesn't bother me a bit. I've done my traveling and now I enjoy my dog.

It's certainly a good discussion to be having and a good outcome of this blog. Something has to change.

My mom used to travel with her dog in cargo up to about 6 years ago. She started hearing all these stories about the airlines and decided she'd never do it again. And she didin't. She's 80 years old this year and still travels, but if she can't get someone to drive with her where she's going (long distances) like Houston, and Denver (from Michigan) then she will fly, but leave the dog with my brother. She will NEVER fly him again and considers herself lucky that there were no bad incidents during the time she did fly him in cargo. Terrie

I also wonder about vivi's crate since i would assume vivi had traveled before, Jil would have made sure this crate was locked, and how some the 2 other dogs were fine that were traveling, And like bo or paul said how did her collar get off, and where is her coat? since the areas were searched and dogs were brought in, you think they would have found her coat by scent, its not like her coat was that small you couldnt see it, someone in the 2 weeks should have seen it even by the marshes since they walked them daily and so many workers out here, if you saw a dog coat on the ground you would think where did this come from, a stray certainly wasn't wearing it. Thats my biggest question, if she was seen by the tanks 12 hours later no collar of coat, something is up!I think the workers need to be asked these questions was her coat on when they were chasing her or was it off by then.

Irene

most of the searchers like ourselves could not even get anywhere near loading areas with security tight,everyting was fenced in with guards, unless they took the owners there and then it was just them, we tried to get in restricted but no luck, so we will never know about cameras. The only time we were allowed in was to pick up vivi's traps and then we were driven in by port authority by 2 seperate cars, dalrene in 1 and myself in the other. We asked why couldn't you just let us in for one day to search, I understand area is enourmous and we could have never covered it, but for peace of mind, for Gods sake, I said to one guard do we actually look like terrorists carrying dog food and leashes? All they do is sit in thier booth all day.

About Vivi's crate:

I remember reading awhile back near when it first happened that the story was Vivi was in her crate on the conveyor belt going into the cargo hold and one of the cargo attendants realized she was going into the wrong plane. So he grabbed her crate and tried to pull it off the conveyor belt while it was moving and the crate fell to the ground and the door burst open and that is when Vivi took off. That would explain the damage to the crate.

Does anybody else remember this story?

I agree with Debbie about the other mystery. How about the fact that Vivi was wearing both a coat and a collar and they are missing? I saw her leather collar in her pictures. It isn't some stretchy thing that a dog might be able to pull off by herself. Who took off her coat and collar? Very weird.

Well I am hoping Vivi baby gets home soon. She is one tough, plucky little girl making it on her own in NY, especially with the cold weather in the past 2 months!

I could see the coat wiggling off and can even imagine someone, whoever first dropped or opened that crate, grabbing her collar and that skinny head pulling out of it. But I can't imagine how a string or rope got tied around her neck. And if that's what happened to the collar why it wasn't handed over. Something very weird happened here.

The coat, I believe, was secured by Velcro, so I can see where it might come loose. The collar is another story and does she have a rope around her neck now?

Wonder if the people that the psychic said were caring for her on a blanket in one of those cargo areas might have decided to take her home, or possibly even sell her. At that time, she was still well fed and clean and different than all the poor suffering strays in that JFK area. Perhaps they put her in a vehicle and underestimated how fast she moves. She could have bolted from them as well and wound up here in the Flushing area, far from JFK...

Just reaching at possibilities cause I don't understand so many things that people say happened.

Doesn't matter at this point...we need to find her and get her off these streets...how, that's the question.
Irene Wilson

I assume everyone has seen this, about the Golden rescued after 2 years on the loose in NH?

Just curious, but does anyone remember way back in the early days of the blog when that Sgt Bogel (I think that was the name) was talking about infrared cameras and drop nets and special bait? Remember he said he or "they" had been after a dog who'd been out for two years? I'm think that that might be Sam, the Golden Ghost they just found. I just read the article, and it seems that he had said the dog "had been out for two years in the mountains of NH and no one had been able to get him". Cool, they got him. Now, come and get Vivi! Terrie

Do you guys remember the limo driver who said he saw a "white dog" running towards the cargo area at the time Vivi ran? White dog? If she had her coat on then, and she should have, why a white dog, did someone remove the coat right away or perhaps it got pulled off trying to catch her? Also, why was that guy so many days late telling anyone.
My male Whippet was flown from Ontario, Ca, short flight to San Jose, Ca..(Do you know the way to San Jose? lol) I was there very early, sitting and waiting. When they brought him in, they just put him on the floor in his crate with tons of suitcase around the boy, anyone could have taken him. Very, very careless! (He was only 8 weeks old, scared silly, poopies in his crate, but:::the breeder had a blanket and towel AND a soft toy they had all rubbed on themselves so he would feel the smell of his old home..very sweet!)
MaryL-California

Karen and Irene:

Does anybody know if the string/rope around her neck was reported as still being there in the recent sightings? The last sighting I read about on this blog had to do with a boy who saw her.

Terrie:

I remember the story about the drop net, special bait and infrared too! He is from Massachusetts and he either works for the State Police or he works for the Massachusetts version of Animal Control. I think he is where the NY searchers got the idea to get night vision goggles.

MaryL:

I never heard the limo driver story. It seems so far several people who report seeing Vivi do so days after the fact. I suppose he just didn't realize what was going on with her and to him it might have been a case of "just a dog running around; no big deal" until he found out about her.

Everybody:

Could you imagine if Vivi could talk? What an amazing tale she'd have to tell us! Vivi totally rocks! She is one tough little cookie!

Tara from LI

TJill @ 1:03...Vivi will have a story to tell all of her doggie friends in California when she gets home. I'll bet they'll get sick of hearing her!
Seems to me Jil lives not terribly far from Bo and Paul, not next door mind you but close.>>hugs (((((wonderful VOLUNTEERS OF NY, YOU DO ROCK and care!)))))
MaryL-California

Bo reported the limo driver story I think right before she started being sighted in neighborhoods he learned about it. Weeks after it happened. Haven't heard any more detailed reports of sightings but I know they have mentioned them as recently as yesterday. It has been weeks since I heard mention of the twine around her neck. No idea. wish these questions would get answered sometimes, it wouldn't hurt anything to do that, other than to keep the poster makers encouraged.

My thought is they weren't thinking of selling her but perhaps of claiming a reward or maybe even just were clueless about who she was. Then she got lots of publicity. The only kind of person who would turn her loose- if they did and she didn't just escape- would be someone with an outstanding warrant and/or an illegal alien who wouldn't want the publicity, even if it came with money. If it were an airport employee, especially a Delta employee, they may have learned too many questions would be asked- there may have already been questions asked. Just speculation. For the movie plot line.

Picture of the crate wayyyy down on this link. I don't know this type of crate, but the picture is very clear.http://newsday.typepad.com/news_local_flaim/vivi_watch/index.html

That link just takes you to the index on this page. I saw it back them a couple of times. There is a story that is not being told that lots of people know. Brian had mentioned going after Delta, wonder what is happening with that.

Karen@1:56...my link takes you to the earlier Feb. Vivi Watch..If you click on it and go to 2/23, "New Search Party for Saturday", just below that there is another heading and the crate is below it. Its not just an index of this page, the page is totally different, "Vivi Watch", not this "Bo On Delta" page or blog. It has a lot of the early pictures of Bo, Paul etc and the crate..
MaryL-California

My Name is "Pilot" and I flew on Delta, this is my story...
I was born in Kennewick, WA. on 9/4/00, the 7th in a litter of 9 Australian Cattle Dogs. I was purchased by my "human parents", Joanne and Neale in Massachusetts after they lost their beloved Cattle Dog 8 months previous. I was shipped Delta Dash at 8 weeks old from Kennewick, Wa. to Bradley International (Windsor Locks, Ct.). I flew from Kennewick to Salt Lake City, Utah, then to Atlanta. Delta misplaced me in Atlanta so I missed my flight. Instead of arriving at 9pm in Ct. I arrived after midnight on the last flight. You can't imagine the tears my new Mom shed as she opened the doors to my little crate. She had been worrying all night about me, calling Delta and not getting any answers. I still don't like planes, I bark when they fly over head. My parents named me SF Tiffyton Phantom Phlyer, but I answer to Pilot. Oh Yea, 3 years ago, another new face arrived, her name is Ruby and she flew on Delta too, only from Alabama, a short flight I guess. So my name is Pilot and thats my story..my flying days are over.

I get it- it is the index of all the blogs and I just didn't look down far enough

K A R E N! (o:

PILOT:::I'm happy you finally got to your mom! Heres another OLD story..My little dog Sparkey flew from San Francisco to England, on his way to French Morocco..There was a strike and he was flown back and forth for ONE MONTH...The SPCA fed him and made sure he had water. When he finally arrived in Morocco, he was deaf, dirty, but safe. He flew to Iran on my moms lap. He died in Iran at the age of 16 and although the Iranians don't usually bury their dogs,they throw them in the gutter for the garbage men to pick up, Sparkey was buried in a rose garden at a home my cousin lived in. This was wayyyyy back in about 1955! The plane was a huge cargo plane and pretty bad, loud, cold etc..Just a little history of flying doggies!
MaryL-California

P.S. My dad was a construction worker in Morocco, then Iran before the Shah's downfall...looonnnggg time ago..
MaryL-California

I have been sitting here reading these sad stories of these poor little animals and what they went through flying. My question is WHY? Yes, the airlines was negligent, but WHY did you and the breeders/owners give them this chance. Why would you not just fly out and pick up a small animal and make sure it is in a crate under your seat, or better drive and pick it up? I'm not saying this to make anyone angry, but just to ask you to think of who ultimately is responsible for the safety of this animal - you or the previous owner.

I agree with Irene. NO animal of mine will be on a plane, unless they are in a crate, in my hands, and right under my seat and safe.

Yes, the airlines should be ashamed for their mishandling, but we ALSO have to take the responsibility for our show dogs, pets, or animals. WOULD YOU allow your children to be put in a crate in cargo? I hope not. Well these animals are your "children" as well. They are God's creatures that have been shared with you to love.

Go ahead with the angry comments, but I felt I had to say this. Think hard people about responsibility for ALL your children before flying. They are living creatures.

My son who is a professional trumpet player always travels with his case and three favorite trumpets. When he was young and in school in New Mexico, he would always tell me, "Mom, if that plane is not large enough to store my trumpet case over my head, I will not be on that plane. Get ready to book another flight." I agreed with him totally, and we did re-book numerous flights. But his trumpets remained safe (and they were NOT living things).

I also witnessed a little girl (about 8 years) on my flight home from Texas. She was traveling alone coming home from grandma's house. She and I sat and talked, shared my peanuts with her, and she was wonderful. When time to get off in Memphis, the attendant did not pay any attention to her. She was walking off by herself, so I insisted she stay with me and I would make sure she got to her parents. I could have been anyone, but I wasn't. I met the girl's parents, let them know the circumstances and they said they would NEVER fly her alone again. The attendant NEVER came looking for the child to check on her either. We still keep in touch with each other. They were very grateful someone was paying attention to their daughter that day. I cried on the way home thinking about what could have happened to that sweet little girl (someone's child they loved so dearly). So don't trust airlines!

Hugs from Kathleen and Tinkerbell

Dear Kathleen & Tinkerbell: When my Whippet was flown, this was 10 years ago, I had no idea of the horror that was either going on then, or could be. Just recently, before Vivi escaped, I heard some stories from a handler. My last Whippet was brought to me at a show in my town, no flying involved.Of course when my little dog flew in 54 or 55, he was on a cargo plane and not many people flew dogs at that time..Why? Who knows why people still fly their dogs..time perhaps, miles maybe, it's just one of those things that NOW, I'm sure people will think twice about. When I was 6, I traveled, alone,by
train, with just a tag on my dress all the way from Montana to California. I had a very caring porter watch over me! Times have changed, who'd a thought dogs would be flying and getting lost.
MaryL-California

I recently flew from London to Prague. I had a seat in the front row, and being exhausted from a long layover after the transatlantic flight, I was hoping for a somewhat quiet and comfortable ride to my destination.

Well two minutes later a group of musicians boarded with a large (cello ??) is it...the large instrument one plays with it positioned between their legs. Sorry, I am not a musician. Anyway, they proceeded to lovingly place it in the seat next to me and fasten the seat belt around it. This large instrument flew next to me, with the musicians chattering about it the whole flight. If that much care goes into flying a cello, our dogs certainly deserve more.

Mary L - We learn, don't we. Sometimes the hard way. I think this should be our message, NOT have to fly our animals safer. People are people, and it is NOT going to get any better for these animals I would bet. From the 1950's to 2006, and it is still happening. We need to wake up and realize this I fear.

Iva, what an incredible story about the cello. You did have the right instrument by the way. If they were professionals (which I feel they were), I can only imagine what the value of the cello was. The even more important worth of a musical instrument is the sentimental value to the musician (where it has been played) and the fact they are so incredibly comfortable with that instrument also. I feel certain those guys probably paid for that seat to make sure their instrument was safe and within eye view the whole trip. Cannot wait to share this story with my son. I could see him doing this very thing.

Thanks for listening to my feelings and not jumping all over me for being so straightforward with my thoughts. I appreciate it very much.

I know one thing, as much as I want to see my two grandchildren who live in Texas - they will NEVER travel by themselves. Learned from that little girl. Thank God that nice porter was watching over Mary L - probably was one of God's guardian angels sent your way.

Oh, one more thing. My son the trumpet player was asked by his grandmother to play at his great-grandmother's funeral. His great-grandmother raised me and she helped very much with my two sons. She was also one of the most important people in his life. I tried to tell my mother this was too much to ask, Nick was hurting too bad (she died from breast cancer). Nick turned to me and said, "Mom, I am a professional. I can play at my Grandma Walker's funeral." He did, and I was so proud of him. I know how hard it was for him. Less than a month later his only great-uncle passed away with a heart attack. He played at that military funeral, and the military people all commented on how incredible he was.

Well a while back someone offered him twice the value of the trumpet he played those two times. They even went higher. He finally told them the history of that trumpet and that no amount of money would buy that trumpet. He has promised to play it again at my funeral too. Thank goodness, he has played it at numerous weddings, concerts, competitions too though! It was also the trumpet he played in Tennessee when he was the All-State first trumpet for Tennessee in the orchestra in his senior year of high school.

Thus how much a musical instrument can mean to its owner.

Here is a cross post in case people in the Charlotte NC area are watching. It came to me through my agility list as a cross post. :
Please pass the word along. Hoping these 2 dogs are
found and reunited
with their owner.
Sheila Leonard
***********
Permission to cross-post!

> " This is one of the most tragic days of my life. We
got up at 5 AM
> this morning in Charlotte at the Motel 6 to find
someone had broken
> into my truck and stolen Tyke (CH Posey Canyon Storm
Watch) and his
> son Desi. They took the dogs and the crates, the
food bag and left the
> back of the truck open. We called the police
immediately and there
> were 5 or 6 cop cars at the motel in less than 10
minutes. That area
> is an area of crack heads we were told, but you
would never know it
> when you look around. The motel was full of dog show
people.
>
> Two male Russells with no collars and no one who
knows how to handle
> them spells death for my two boys. Turning out 2
males together will
> be death for the one or the other eventually. Turing
them off leash to
> empty is death for both of them. I am terrified if
they live they will
> be sold to a pitbull fighting ring to be used as
bait.
>
> Someone spotted a beige car about 2 AM and the
driver had a dog crate
> in his lap or beside it with another one in the back
and a passenger.
> They were black. The odds of getting these boys back
or even that Desi
> is alive right now is minimal. I can't even begin to
tell you how
> painful this is. Tyke is not replaceable. His dam is
spayed. He is the
> first male since the death of my beloved David that
gave us hope,
> began to fill our homes with top quality terrriers
with the most
> wonderful temperaments we've ever seen. Tyke sired
Susan Reaney's CH
> Emerald Fox In Vogue and the male that Claudia
Sprague and I co-own
> Falling Branch Mr. Balou who took the major all 4
days in Portland and
> finished that weekend. He is the sire of my sister's
Falling Branch
> Skywalker who has been shown 4 times with WD and BW
3 of those 4
> times. And Deis is not replaceable either. His sire
is gone. Tyke is
> the best producing stud dog I have ever owned.
Beyond what he produces
> as a stud dog he is so sweet and snuggly and he
won't understand what
> is happening and where I am. He is very bonded to
me. These dogs don't
> know blacks, crack heads or mistreatment.
>
> The motel was using a security guard that isn't
their regular one and
> they didn't even know his name. The Charlotte police
were mortified
> that the Motel 6 was completely unconcerned and
didn't even know the
> name of the security guard they were using. Some
security guard. The
> police were wonderful and I know they will do all
they can do with
> limited manpower and crimes they consider to be so
much more severe.
> One of the female police started crying too. I
understand that dogs to
> a police force don't measure up to murder, rapes,
assault etc. but to
> me these dogs are as much my family as my siblings.
>
> We were told to contact Crime Stoppers in Charlotte
and perhaps they
> will get the media to cover it. Susan Reaney, who
was thinking better
> than I was, found out where the closest flea market
is and headed out
> there to see if the people who stole the dogs might
be there trying to
> sell them. I pray she finds them. Susan is the
co-owner of both Tyke
> and Desi and so she has as much legal power to take
them as I do if
> they are found.
>
> We took a few photos of Desi, the 9 month old male
pup, this weekend.
> I believe Lynn only got 3 photos of him but I will
post them when she
> retrieves them from her camera. I'll post a photo of
Tyke in this
> post. The black spot on Tyke's topline goes down
about 4 inches on the
> other side. Tyke is 12 1/2 inches tall and weighs
about 14 pounds.
> Desi is a tri color with a black saddle on his back
and a tri head.
> His markings are very distinctive. He is 13 1/4" and
weighs about 13
> pounds.
>
> Please, I beg you to cross post this to every list
and every message
> board that you frequent. If you know anyone in the
Charlotte, NC area
> please contact them. I am beyond devastated. We are
offering a
> substantial reward for the safe return of these
dogs."
>
>
> If anyone at the Charlotte shows has any knowledge
of these Terriers
> please email me at workjrs@hughes.net
>
> Sadly posted for a beagle owner also, Liz McKinney,
who owns Caberet's
> littermate Roirdan Hello Dolly. I know she is
heartbroken
>
> Linda Cranford

IVA, I wonder if the French still allow dogs to sit on seats next to their people? They do let them sit in chairs at restaurants and eat, or they did at one time! And:::::::a cello in a seat of its own and put a dog in a crate UNDER the people in seats, what a thing to do. Next time you guys fly a dog, disguise him/her as a cello..(stupid airlines!)
I don't fly, so I would never consider flying one of my dogs, ever again.
KATHLEEN::::: (O:
MaryL-California

Hello Everyone,
Sorry, I haven’t been writing much lately. It has been a very emotional two weeks for me. I have so many VERY HARD decisions to be made.
I got the results of the second opinion biopsy on Dante and found out that the tumor is in fact a Mast Cell Tumor Grade 3 which is the worst possible.
I was referred to an oncologist to discuss our options. I elected to go to an oncologist that is located in a city about 25 minutes from my home. My vet refers to this place as a “little UC Davis”. The oncologist that we saw is a UC Davis graduate.
She said that basically I have 4 choices to make. 1) radiation to the site alone, 2) chemotherapy alone, 3) radiation and chemotherapy combined, and 4) none of the above. Radiation alone will kill any remaining mast cell tumor in that area. Chemotherapy is less effective than radiation and doesn’t necessary create a cure but rather slow the process down. The combination of the 2 has the best effect if going with treatment.
The radiation therapy would consist of 18 visits over 6 weeks, every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday for about 2 or so hours each time. He would have to be put under anesthesia each time and be intubated (tube down his throat). The treatments are short but he would have to stay until the anesthesia wears off. He would have redness to a burn at the site and would have to wear a collar to stop him from licking it for approximately 8 weeks or until the site is healed. He would lose his hair there and if it grows back it could grow back a different color. He will have a lasting change in appearance of that site. The cost is approximately $5000.
The chemotherapy is done via IV drugs and is done every 2-3 weeks for a minimum of 4-6 treatments. She said that 50% of the dogs have no reaction to the treatment, 30% have mild reactions and 20% have more severe reactions at which point they would change the drug or lower the dose. The cost for this would be between $1500-3500. She said the average cost for combined therapy is $7500.
They warned me that it is not an easy process and is very emotionally and physically exhausting, as well as time consuming, for both the guardian and the pet. There are no guarantees that it would work either. She said that it is a 50/50 chance for survival past 222 days. Without treatment the average survival time is 4-6 months. I asked her what her statistics are and she said the same as what she told me because these were taken from when she was at UC Davis where they did the study. I also asked how they collected the statistics and she said it included pets that had received full treatment (combo), partial/ limited treatment.
Dante will be 8 next month and currently is a VERY HAPPY and full of life boy. He is an angel. He very much loves his home and brother (Trotter). I must admit that I am very concerned about his emotional state if I chose to put him through this. Would I be doing this for me or for him? What does he want me to do? Would it be more humane to let him live the remainder of his life at home with love and kisses and happy vs. being stressed out to the max for the next 6 weeks with no guarantee of a cure? Would his personality be changed forever after being subjected to these treatments? Would he lose trust and faith in me for putting him through such a thing? Would he think I am punishing him when he has been such a good boy? Could he be one of the very few that the surgery got it all out before it had time to send satellite cells into his body? These are just a few of the questions that have been running through my head. I want to choose what is best for him. I am really trying to make the correct decision for him knowing that there is no crystal ball to give me the answer. I love him SO MUCH!
What would you do if you were put into my situation? Really stop and think about it. It is not an easy decision. I would appreciate help with making the best decision possible for Dante. God, why us? Life is not fair!
Once again, I must thank everyone for all of the support. I read each and every email and am open to suggestions. I feel numb and have cried until I have no more tears to cry. Unfortunately, I need to come to a decision very soon and then I need to be at peace with this decision. I have said more prayers than I can count. At times, I really feel like I am losing my sanity. I have definitely lost control of my lovely home/ family. We take our babies being with us for granted, without even realizing it, and then something like this happens and everything turns upside down. I don’t wish this on anyone.

Kathleen..... I have never flown a pet on an airline and I never would. It's just my thinking and my preference to not take chances. And yes, I have been on the show circuit before. I'm in total agreement with you on the responsibility being that of us, the owners. I live in AZ. and drove to Little Rock, Arkansas, to meet up with a show breeder from Mississippi at a dog show to pick up my little one here who is now 22 mos. old. We have driven to N. Jersey, CA., for several of our dogs and as close as the streets of Phoenix for rescues. Again, it's just my feelings on the safe transportation of our beloveds..... never out of my sight...never out of my hands.

Karen@5:32,How terrible. You just can't leave anything in your car in most places. I email friends in N.C., S.C. Alabama, Ga, Va and Ky and asked that they send the post on to their friends.
I wish your friend the best.
MaryL-California

Valerie,

I am so sorry to read that the 2nd opinion of Dante's tumor confirmed the worst. I have no sage advice to offer as to what is the correct decision, but it is clear to me that you love Dante as your own child and have his best interests at heart, so I am sure that you will make the best decision for him.

I'm praying for a miraculous healing for Dante, and barring that, I'm praying for wisdom for you to make the right decision and that you can be at peace with it.

I will light a candle for Dante along with my Vivi candle tonight.

God bless you both,

Gail from IL

Good evening everyone..
Just returned from being out since at 10am this morning, got home around 5pm. I met up with my fellow searches Judy and Barbara at our usual place this morning, Peck Park and we waited for Honi to arrive to give us some posters and the new thick, laminated flyers which are wonderful. All of the posters/flyers are great!!! Thank you to all of you working so hard on them, we really appreciate it. I left my car at Peck Park and the three of us ventured off in Judy's car. We first went to do a little exploring near the Alley Pond Environmental Center, then Alley Pond Park, near Creedmore. We then decided to head to College Point, along the way we stopped to check out the old Flushing Airport area, tried to look into the marsh area from various points around the perimeter of the fencing. Unfortunately I had noticed a lot of the large neon posters Dina and I had just put up last weekend were all down already, we had put them mostly on wooden telephone poles so I'm not sure why anyone felt the need to take them down. Needless to say I was not at all happy about that. We stopped and revisted College Point Park, luckily almost all the flyers Dina and I had put there last weekend were still up. After that we headed to Macneil Park, put up some flyers, strolled around, gave the Vivi postcards to people, most seemed genuinely interested. After that we went over to Whitestone and stopped at a little park near the water, right by the Cross Island Parkway called "Little Bay Park". It was a pretty nice place, with a dog run and everything. We put up some flyers and spoke with people near the dog run. It was a relatively pleasant day when the wind wasn't blowing so there were a lot of people letting their dogs run and play. We spoke with a couple walking their white Whippet, with a brown patch on the left side of her face. She was 13 years old, but was extremely spry and looked ready to play. Her owner said everytime he goes running with her in the mornings people stop him thinking that it's Vivi. We only spoke with for a few moments because the Whippet kept pulling them in the direction of the dog run area, she wanted to go play, not stand there talking to us. Can't say I blame her. We pased through Bayside on our way back in the direction of Peck Park so I could get my car, we went through Flushing Cemetery too, just for the heck of it. We just scanned the areas of the cemetery, hoping for a miracle as usual. Once again I *wish* I had some awesome news to report, believe me, *nothing* would make me happier at this point. But on the positive side, most of the people we spoke with knew all about Vivi and if they weren't before they said they will certainly keep their eyes open now. There were a few other searchers/posting people out today as well. I haven't talked to anyone else yet but hopefully we will have some luck and someone will have a sighting. Ok, I have to go feed my cat and rest for a little bit.

Valerie: *hugs* to you and Dante, you are in my thoughts & prayers.

*keeping hope and faith alive here in nyc*
We love you vivi
http://www.vivalavivi.bravehost.com
-Renee

Valerie - I also can feel your pain seriously. I have been in these type of positions myself, and it is such a difficult decision.

My Siamese cat, Yaki Kahn of Anchorwat, was seriously ill at about 16 years of age. He was my dear sweet Kahn, and the idea of parting with him ripped me apart. His kidneys were failing, and it was felt he also had a tumor as well. I could tell how uncomfortable he was, but I did not want to part with him.

The day I had him put to sleep my son, Tommy, drove me to the vet's office. I cried the entire way while holding Kahn in my arms. But the words of the lady I had adopted him from gave me comfort. She said, "Kathy, this is the last loving thing you can do for Kahn, ending his pain and loving him enough to let him go." Remember this if your decision falls the same as mine. Dante would say thank you if he could and he is in pain.

I never stop missing my Kahn, but I know I will see him in Heaven and he will not be in pain any longer.

Hugs from Kathleen and Tinkerbell, and may God bless you and Dante during this difficult time.

Valerie, I'm praying for you and Dante. I'll light an extra candle for Dante and pray that God will give you the answer you are seeking.

Regarding the post above of the tragedy involving the merciless theft of these two dogs. Someone, please tell me I'm just not getting this. I keep reading this over and over, thinking, hoping, for whatever reason, I'm wrong here. But the owners were staying at a Motel 6 and they left these dogs out in their truck overnight???? Locked outside in their truck overnight? Talk about responsibility. I am truly heartbroken and sick over the loss and fate of these innocent little dogs. I know that they are in God's Holy light.
I just read it again before posting this. Am I just having a bad day? What am I missing here? Someone jump on me and explain the mere simplicity of my misunderstanding so I can apologize and say, "oh, ya, of course, now I see. I don't know what I was thinking." Otherwise, this has to be the epitome of stupidity.

Teri:

AMEN!! I also need to understand what I am missing here....left dogs overnight in a truck!! What??

Irene Wilson

Hey guys, people do this all the time, bad as it is. Sometimes it's because the motel won't let you bring the dogs in, other times, who knows? Dogs have been stolen at dog shows, in the ring areas, right out of their crates or Ex-pens..Its sad true, but I feel pity for these people, my heart goes out to them. They for sure did the wrong thing, too late now. I did email people in NC-SC-Va-Ga and Alabama and asked them to cross post the mail.I'm not making excuses for the people, it was done without thinking on their part!
MaryL-California

What??? I went to a campgrund and stayed at a motel...with 3 Huskies (my kids) and I would only stay there if I could keep my kids with me in my room. No way would I leave them in my truck...they stayed in my room with me at night. In the daytime, they went where I went....to the park.

SORRY PEOPLE!
I CANNOT HAVE SYMPATHY OR EMPATHY FOR PEOPLE WHO DO THINGS 'WITHOUT THINKING". OWNING PETS DEMANDS THAT PEOPLE TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND THINK!!!

Would you leave your children in the truck overnight?

This absolutely makes me sick, totally sick! And, unfortunately, it is the innocent pets who pay the awful price. These people are the pits!

You can all flame away if you wish, but it is my opinion and my personal feelings and I stand my them.

Irene Wilson

Valerie,

I am so sorry to hear about Dante. This is a very hard decision for you to make. I know because I was there a little over a year ago. My Xavier a Kuvasz was diaganosed with a sinus tumor that was spreading to his brain. They wanted to operate. They did not know if he would live throught the surgery. If he did he may be blind and have personality changes. They would have had to open his head up between his eyes. They said he might live about a year with no treatment.I loved him to much to let him go through the surgery with just a small maybe. I was lucky enough to have his company for four more wonderful months. His pain was managed with out compermising his life. He died peacefully in my arms.

Hi Valerie,
I wish you the very best with Dante and believe me that I know what you are facing and the enormity of the descision that you must make for your friend.

I lost my wife of 35 years four months ago to a brain tumor that was in-operable due to it's location. Radiation was offered as a possible remedy and we were assured that the success rate was on our side but as it turned out, it wasn't.

My point is this Valerie, she knew and accepted the risk that she would become sick and that her hair would probably fall out from the radiation. She and I were willing to take that risk because there was always a chance that this would mend everything that was wrong and we could continue our lives as if nothing had happened.

Dante is your loved one in this situation. He is a dog and as such has no actual input with what you chose to do for him. He simply accepts you as his mistress and he always wants to do whats best for you...not him.

If I could go back in time and somehow could have known then what I know now; that after my wife having received those treatments that might have possibly helped, would end up reducing her life to almost nothing, I would have told her that in my opinion we shouldn't have done a damn thing at all and let her enjoy the last days of her life doing and enjoying the things she loved.

Remember Valerie, hindsight is always 20/20 and as such we Humans, in this case, bear a responsibility. A family pet is a loved one regardless of if it has two legs or four and is still our responsibility to care for, to love and cherish and to take care of forever.

I was touched by what you had posted because like you, I have many special friends of the animal persuasion, both cats and dogs now living with me. Their welfare is very important and they depend on me to make the correct choices for them every day.

You are faced with a tough decision as I said eariler, and I wish I could tell you what to do to make you feel better about whichever choice you make, but I can't do that for you.

You know your friend Dante better than anyone and I know that you will search your heart and make the correct decision for both him and ultimately, for you.

I wish both of you the very best that can be wished and if I can be of assistance in any way to help you understand, please don't hesitate to send me an e-mail.

Georgepat

Hey guys, people do this all the time, bad as it is. Sometimes it's because the motel won't let you bring the dogs in, other times, who knows? Dogs have been stolen at dog shows, in the ring areas, right out of their crates or Ex-pens..Its sad true, but I feel pity for these people, my heart goes out to them. They for sure did the wrong thing, too late now. I did email people in NC-SC-Va-Ga and Alabama and asked them to cross post the mail.I'm not making excuses for the people, it was done without thinking on their part! Think of their heart ache, the IF's..
MaryL-California

I hear ya Irene...these dogs are my KIDS...and I treat them as my kids. I asked the lady who owned the motel could I have my kids in the room with me. She said yes as long as they were housebroken. They were, and so we all stayed in the room together. I brought their beds and put them down, and turned the lights out and said goodnight. Pretty soon...tadum, one of them is up on my bed....tadum, another one is up on the bed....tadum, the third one was up on the bed. In the end, there was little room for me, but we all slept together and woke up together and spent the day together.

I hate to say it but there are many show people who do leave the dogs in the cars, truck, van or what have you. I for one would never do that. I have traveled with a number of people that did it all the time. I was never comfortable with that. In fact one time some friends had the dogs in the van and some one tried to take them. They were Mastiffs and backed off right away. I was them running from the van. Heaven forbid if thay were smaller dogs.

As for flying animals. I try not to do this often, but sometimes there is no other way. I had to fly my PH in from the Netherlands a year ago. Nuon and his sister made it safely. I prayed the whole time and they flew on KLM direct flight. If I must fly an animal, I stay with them until the very last moment and fly direct. No stop overs or flight changes.

I say to Valerie: Does this vet know Sight Hounds? I had an experience at an ER vets in Dublin Ca..they DID NOT KNOW WHIPPETS AND I ALMOST LOST MY GIRL...U.C. Davis is very good. I live about 50 to 60 mins. from there, write to me Valerie! I'll let you and your boy stay at my house! My guys wouldn't bother Dante. He could have a room of his own with you!
MaryL-California

Aw, geez, Mary. I'll take your word for this stuff happening at shows although it's never been my experience. No doubt, it can happen. But to be so careless with such precious little ones??? There just is no good excuse. #1 at the very top of the list is.....Don't stay at a motel that doesn't accept dogs. All the show people I know have eyes in the back of their heads and "spotters" on their dogs at all times. Some even have security. Don't get me wrong. This is a terrible tragedy indeed. But I just can't imagine the owners being so irresponsible. This tragedy is all so unnecessary. I'm sorry if anyone is offended. I've just never heard of anything like this. Those sweet babies are suffering because of lack of responsibility. How sad. You can all jump on me if you want, but that's the fact here. This is just a gut wrenching story. These little ones are surely in my prayers.

Valerie: What ever decision you make will be the right one for Dante. My prayers are with you.. and Dante...

Valerie,
I am so sorry for what you are going thru. I've walked in your shoes but all I can say is whatever you decide will be the right thing for Dante. Dogs have no conception of tomorrow but they do know pain and suffering. You are his protector and will do the right thi